I am looking at getting a BP&W and was wondering how you determine what size wing and plate to get? I am 6'2" ~240lbs, I dive dry using a Fusion Bullet. I was looking at a wing that is listed in the for sale section but when I looked it up on the manufacturers website it said that the 45lb wing is for doubles. So, for those of you out there that are around my size what do you use?
Thanks,
Dave
BP&W advice needed
Re: BP&W advice needed
I'm 6'1" similar weight and use a 32 lb hog wing and it's great. I use a large DSS SS plate and STA. I'd assume your height will be the same for plate size.
I don't believe you're weight will affect the wing size as much as it will affect your weighting in the water.
If your going for a singles rig though, I'd steer clear of the "dual purpose" 40-ish pound wings like a rec wing, they just don't do either well. My first wing was a rec wing and I quickly sold it for a dedicated singles wing and I like it much better. I heard the same advice from
Many if my more experienced dive buddies as well and they were all right (as usual).
If you want to try a setup out, I know many people on here would be willing to hook yah up to try it out. I would if I had extra gear, but I'm still new enough I only have one setup...
Good luck!
I don't believe you're weight will affect the wing size as much as it will affect your weighting in the water.
If your going for a singles rig though, I'd steer clear of the "dual purpose" 40-ish pound wings like a rec wing, they just don't do either well. My first wing was a rec wing and I quickly sold it for a dedicated singles wing and I like it much better. I heard the same advice from
Many if my more experienced dive buddies as well and they were all right (as usual).
If you want to try a setup out, I know many people on here would be willing to hook yah up to try it out. I would if I had extra gear, but I'm still new enough I only have one setup...
Good luck!
I think you've figured out the root cause of your problems. Even sea lions get annoyed by splitfin divers silting out their dive sites. Switch back to your jets and you'll be safe from the sea lion silt prevention patrol from now on. - NWbrewer
Re: BP&W advice needed
I am 6' 7'' 300. I dive ow depths only and wear a semi dri suit. I use al80 singles. I got a dive rite bp/w called voyagerpac. It lifts 35 lbs if i remember correctly. I got size xxl. You might be xl. I dive with around 40 lbs of weight. 15 of which i integrated into the harness.
The bc is a fully adjustable harness and simple wing. Very tough and streamlined. No back plate is used, just a pad which is also adjustable. The more i dive with it the more i love and appreciate it. Very customizable and very easy to trim.
The bc is a fully adjustable harness and simple wing. Very tough and streamlined. No back plate is used, just a pad which is also adjustable. The more i dive with it the more i love and appreciate it. Very customizable and very easy to trim.
Re: BP&W advice needed
A 32-40lb singles wing will do you just fine. Hog, halcyon, DSS, dive rite, Hollis, etc all have models in that range.LowDrag wrote:I am looking at getting a BP&W and was wondering how you determine what size wing and plate to get? I am 6'2" ~240lbs, I dive dry using a Fusion Bullet. I was looking at a wing that is listed in the for sale section but when I looked it up on the manufacturers website it said that the 45lb wing is for doubles. So, for those of you out there that are around my size what do you use?
Thanks,
Dave
Re: BP&W advice needed
+1 on what Spatty said.
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White
Re: BP&W advice needed
+2kdupreez wrote:+1 on what Spatty said.
"A man must have some wit to know he is a fool"
Maritime Archaeological Society (MAS)
http://maritimearchaeological.org/
Northwest Diving History Association (NWDHA)
http://www.divinghistory.org/
Maritime Archaeological Society (MAS)
http://maritimearchaeological.org/
Northwest Diving History Association (NWDHA)
http://www.divinghistory.org/
Re: BP&W advice needed
I have the HOG 32lb wing and you are welcome to borrow it for a test dive or two whenever you want.LowDrag wrote:I am looking at getting a BP&W and was wondering how you determine what size wing and plate to get? I am 6'2" ~240lbs, I dive dry using a Fusion Bullet. I was looking at a wing that is listed in the for sale section but when I looked it up on the manufacturers website it said that the 45lb wing is for doubles. So, for those of you out there that are around my size what do you use?
Thanks,
Dave
Re: BP&W advice needed
Whatever you get just make sure its a singles wing and <40lbs. You do not need a huge bag on your back and the "dual-purpose" single-doubles wings on the market don't do either thing right. IF you ever decide you want to dive doubles, a 2nd wing built for the purpose will be the least of your expenses.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
Re: BP&W advice needed
FWIW - 3 of the guys in the MMM crew that have recently setup our own gear in the last year, all have gone with the hog 32lb wing and have had great experience with it so far. The inflator button was a little wierd at first (just compared to the one I had been borrowing, but got used to it plenty fast).spatman wrote:I have the HOG 32lb wing and you are welcome to borrow it for a test dive or two whenever you want.LowDrag wrote:I am looking at getting a BP&W and was wondering how you determine what size wing and plate to get? I am 6'2" ~240lbs, I dive dry using a Fusion Bullet. I was looking at a wing that is listed in the for sale section but when I looked it up on the manufacturers website it said that the 45lb wing is for doubles. So, for those of you out there that are around my size what do you use?
Thanks,
Dave
I think you've figured out the root cause of your problems. Even sea lions get annoyed by splitfin divers silting out their dive sites. Switch back to your jets and you'll be safe from the sea lion silt prevention patrol from now on. - NWbrewer
Re: BP&W advice needed
Great info...thanks everyone!!! I got my wife a Hollis Elite II but she is still undecided as to whether she likes it or not. I think it is just an adjustment issue. If she does decide she doesn't like it then I have a newer BP&W that is a 38# lift. If she does keep I will definitely be looking at either another Hollis or a DSS rig. Thanks again for all the great info everyone.
Thanks for the offer. I really appreciate it. As for test driving a BP&W, that has already been done thanks to the owner of the LDS I go thru now. He is the one that got me hooked on the BP&W rig. I just wasn't sure about the sizing of the wing is all.
Have a great night!!!
Dave
spatman wrote:I have the HOG 32lb wing and you are welcome to borrow it for a test dive or two whenever you want.
Thanks for the offer. I really appreciate it. As for test driving a BP&W, that has already been done thanks to the owner of the LDS I go thru now. He is the one that got me hooked on the BP&W rig. I just wasn't sure about the sizing of the wing is all.
Have a great night!!!
Dave
Re: BP&W advice needed
I would bet money its an adjustment issue.LowDrag wrote:<SNIP>... I got my wife a Hollis Elite II but she is still undecided as to whether she likes it or not. I think it is just an adjustment issue..</SNIP>
My wife had a DiveRite Transplate harness that I bought her a few years back and after 3 dives she ditched it and went back to her ScubaPro Bella BCD. She hated the BP/Wing. I sold it and she was happily diving her BCD.
This past May, we went to Hawaii and I packed her a brand new Halcyon Infinity BP/Wing system with gel padding and quick-adjust cinch system. I sized it up properly as per what we do on day 1 in fundies and she LOVED it!! she said she barely noticed it was there and it was much more secure and comfortable during and after the dive (on the surface) than her old BCD and she will never go back!
so yeah, probably a sizing / fitting issue is my bet.
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White
Re: BP&W advice needed
Thanks Koos...I bet you are absolutely right. My only question at this point would be....what is the right fit? I have heard that you want the shoulder straps to have about a three finger gap between your shoulder/chest area and I have heard that the straps need to be snug. Not sure which way to go. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Dave
Dave
Re: BP&W advice needed
Thanks Koos...I bet you are absolutely right. My only question at this point would be....what is the right fit? I have heard that you want the shoulder straps to have about a three finger gap between your shoulder/chest area and I have heard that the straps need to be snug. Not sure which way to go. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Dave
Dave
Re: BP&W advice needed
~3 fingers when the crotch strap is un-done. ~1 finger when the crotch strap is in place properly.LowDrag wrote:Thanks Koos...I bet you are absolutely right. My only question at this point would be....what is the right fit? I have heard that you want the shoulder straps to have about a three finger gap between your shoulder/chest area and I have heard that the straps need to be snug. Not sure which way to go. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Dave
Best just to get someone who knows what they are doing to help get you setup "close" to correct. Then fine tune based on personal feel after that.
Sounder wrote:Under normal circumstances, I would never tell another man how to shave his balls... but this device should not be kept secret.
Re: BP&W advice needed
a good base to start from would be the following.
Plate position:
Put your wrist on the back of your head and look up, effectively using your head/neck to push your hand down the center of your back (palm facing your back) as far as you can and arch your back slightly.. The back plate should be high enough so you can barely touch it with your finger tips. This position should remain in tact when everything is tightened up (crotch strap and waist straps and buckle secure)
Harness:
yes, when everything is tight (waist and crotch strap nice and snug) you need about 1-2 fingers space between your body and the harness (i like mine on about 2-3 actually). you can pull it a little away from your body without excessive force to check the gap. The gap should be enough so that when you want to take the system off, you can simply undo the crotch strap and stick your thumbs in the d-rings and pull the straps outwards and get out very easily. Be aware though the hollis elite2 (same as diverite transplate) dont have continues webbing, so 3 fingers may be too much since the strap doesnt go below the armpit but more straight down to the metal buckle thing that weaves into the waist strap. With his angle of shoulder straps, you will also feel the shoulder straps want to climb off your shoulders with this system, hence the chest strap. Im personally not a big fan of it because you have to almost over-tighten the harness to be comfortable, but then you cant get out of it without the quick disconnect buckles. (I had a DR transplate years ago)
crotch strap:
ideally the crotch strap should align with your belly button and be fairly snug. this is what pulls the shoulder straps tight and prevents everything from flopping around. This balance of shoulder strap length and crotch strap length is almost an art because if its too tight, it will pull the plate down, too loose and stuff will flop around and be unstable.
D-Rings:
Left and right D-rings should easy reachable and sort of half way between nipple and colar bone is usually a good spot. (for men at least.) there is a neat trick thats hard to explain in typed text, but you bring your elbows up like when doing a "chicken flap" bring elbows completely horizontal and then bring the thumbs in horizontal to elbow towards your chest and see where your thumbs hit the shoulder strap.. that will be the natural position for your arms to be able to clip stuff, so put the d-rings there.. 2 of them is plenty (1 per shoulder), you will have a hard time reaching other d-rings on the harness.
Hip D-Rings:
Usually right on the seam of where the a seam would be on jeans. in the center of your body when viewing a side profile.. most people find that about a hand or hand and half from the back of the plate is enough. but this is really up to you on where is comfortable.
The above is a good starting point and then you can fine tweak from there.
a couple of things to be aware of with women, their torsos tends to be shorter than men, so when they are in the water, the back plate could be too long and be uncomftable. There are a few manufacturers who make shorter plates for shorter body types.
Also a back plate padding and shoulder padding will do wonders for comfort when using it for the first time. The system I use now have gel based shoulder padding and its super comfy.
hope this helps.
here is a link to a somewhat outdated and antiquated equipment fitting write up. the basics are there though.
http://www.baue.org/faq/backplate_sizin ... images.php
One last thing that can make or break a BP/Wing experience is weight placement.. you should have a balanced system with enough on the waist and tanks so its not too top or bottom heavy and with STA's when you put lots of weight on the tank straps, it tends to teeter-toter and roll around a lot and be very unstable. majority should be on the waist (for single tanks) and just a few pounds on tank straps to trim you out. a weighted STA will also help a lot.
Plate position:
Put your wrist on the back of your head and look up, effectively using your head/neck to push your hand down the center of your back (palm facing your back) as far as you can and arch your back slightly.. The back plate should be high enough so you can barely touch it with your finger tips. This position should remain in tact when everything is tightened up (crotch strap and waist straps and buckle secure)
Harness:
yes, when everything is tight (waist and crotch strap nice and snug) you need about 1-2 fingers space between your body and the harness (i like mine on about 2-3 actually). you can pull it a little away from your body without excessive force to check the gap. The gap should be enough so that when you want to take the system off, you can simply undo the crotch strap and stick your thumbs in the d-rings and pull the straps outwards and get out very easily. Be aware though the hollis elite2 (same as diverite transplate) dont have continues webbing, so 3 fingers may be too much since the strap doesnt go below the armpit but more straight down to the metal buckle thing that weaves into the waist strap. With his angle of shoulder straps, you will also feel the shoulder straps want to climb off your shoulders with this system, hence the chest strap. Im personally not a big fan of it because you have to almost over-tighten the harness to be comfortable, but then you cant get out of it without the quick disconnect buckles. (I had a DR transplate years ago)
crotch strap:
ideally the crotch strap should align with your belly button and be fairly snug. this is what pulls the shoulder straps tight and prevents everything from flopping around. This balance of shoulder strap length and crotch strap length is almost an art because if its too tight, it will pull the plate down, too loose and stuff will flop around and be unstable.
D-Rings:
Left and right D-rings should easy reachable and sort of half way between nipple and colar bone is usually a good spot. (for men at least.) there is a neat trick thats hard to explain in typed text, but you bring your elbows up like when doing a "chicken flap" bring elbows completely horizontal and then bring the thumbs in horizontal to elbow towards your chest and see where your thumbs hit the shoulder strap.. that will be the natural position for your arms to be able to clip stuff, so put the d-rings there.. 2 of them is plenty (1 per shoulder), you will have a hard time reaching other d-rings on the harness.
Hip D-Rings:
Usually right on the seam of where the a seam would be on jeans. in the center of your body when viewing a side profile.. most people find that about a hand or hand and half from the back of the plate is enough. but this is really up to you on where is comfortable.
The above is a good starting point and then you can fine tweak from there.
a couple of things to be aware of with women, their torsos tends to be shorter than men, so when they are in the water, the back plate could be too long and be uncomftable. There are a few manufacturers who make shorter plates for shorter body types.
Also a back plate padding and shoulder padding will do wonders for comfort when using it for the first time. The system I use now have gel based shoulder padding and its super comfy.
hope this helps.
here is a link to a somewhat outdated and antiquated equipment fitting write up. the basics are there though.
http://www.baue.org/faq/backplate_sizin ... images.php
One last thing that can make or break a BP/Wing experience is weight placement.. you should have a balanced system with enough on the waist and tanks so its not too top or bottom heavy and with STA's when you put lots of weight on the tank straps, it tends to teeter-toter and roll around a lot and be very unstable. majority should be on the waist (for single tanks) and just a few pounds on tank straps to trim you out. a weighted STA will also help a lot.
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White
Re: BP&W advice needed
Thanks Cap and Koos...I appreciate the tips, that will help out a lot.
Koos - The only reason I bought her the Elite was the price. I got it used from our LDS for $300 and only used ~5 times so I figure I got a good deal for it. The one thing I have wondered since buying it, is, should I replace the webbing and go with a straight harness? I am not overly worried about trimming off "excess buoyancy" but thinking of the ease of use. I should also mention that she is quite busty. When we were at the shop trying to get it adjusted she kept laughing about the harness making her look like Dolly Parton and please don't tell you don't know that name...
I was talking to her last night and she has come around to the thought that she does not want to go back to the Bella and wants to get this rig set up for her. So, all I need to do is get her comfortable in it. We have a few dives coming up so that shouldn't be hard to do.
I probably wont be able to get too much adjusting done this weekend because this is a BBQ weekend for us and we will be super busy both today and tomorrow. I will be checking in later though.
Cheers everyone....stay cool in this heat wave!!!
Dave
Koos - The only reason I bought her the Elite was the price. I got it used from our LDS for $300 and only used ~5 times so I figure I got a good deal for it. The one thing I have wondered since buying it, is, should I replace the webbing and go with a straight harness? I am not overly worried about trimming off "excess buoyancy" but thinking of the ease of use. I should also mention that she is quite busty. When we were at the shop trying to get it adjusted she kept laughing about the harness making her look like Dolly Parton and please don't tell you don't know that name...
I was talking to her last night and she has come around to the thought that she does not want to go back to the Bella and wants to get this rig set up for her. So, all I need to do is get her comfortable in it. We have a few dives coming up so that shouldn't be hard to do.I probably wont be able to get too much adjusting done this weekend because this is a BBQ weekend for us and we will be super busy both today and tomorrow. I will be checking in later though.
Cheers everyone....stay cool in this heat wave!!!
Dave
Re: BP&W advice needed
no problemmo. if you are in the area ever, I would be more than happy to help in person too. I'm thinking a one-piece harness may help because the elite's chest strap may not be ideal in her specific caseLowDrag wrote:Thanks Cap and Koos...I appreciate the tips, that will help out a lot.
Seattle fabric sells the 2" variety in many many different colors too!What time should we be there?LowDrag wrote:I probably wont be able to get too much adjusting done this weekend because this is a BBQ weekend for us and we will be super busy both today and tomorrow. I will be checking in later though.
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White
Re: BP&W advice needed
I am planning on a divers BBQ...I will let you know when and where... 
Re: BP&W advice needed
Okay...change 2000 and 15. Danee has decided that she does not want to dive the Hollis Elite II but instead the Aqua Lung Lotus i3. Okay...no worries, I will dive the Hollis Elite II, no biggee. So, I went to adjust it to fit me following the posts that all of you have been kind enough to put on here plus I watched a video from Simplyscuba.com on the Hollis Elite II. Well...the harness is not anything like what is on the video so I am going to get some 2" nylon webbing and go with a simple harness. I have been watching Youtube which brings to mind a question or two.
1. Just about every harness I saw had a stainless steel ring in the middle of the webbing that was to be lined up with the top hole in the backplate for a bolt to go thru for an STA. My question is this...is the SS ring necessary or is it just one of those marketing things that makes no difference one way or the other. I get that the hole has to be there if you are going to use an STA but what if I decide not to?
2. Another video mentioned "anti-chaffing" material to go around the webbing where it passes thru the backplate. Anybody use that or is it another unnecessary piece of BS?
3. How do you set up your cam buckle? Right hand release like a weight belt or left hand release? One of the video's I watched said to set up the cam buckle on the harness for a left hand release to avoid releasing your harness when you want to release your weight belt.
4. Is there anyone in the Portland area that knows where I can get the webbing I need without having to order it from DRI or another .com?
Thanks everyone...
1. Just about every harness I saw had a stainless steel ring in the middle of the webbing that was to be lined up with the top hole in the backplate for a bolt to go thru for an STA. My question is this...is the SS ring necessary or is it just one of those marketing things that makes no difference one way or the other. I get that the hole has to be there if you are going to use an STA but what if I decide not to?
2. Another video mentioned "anti-chaffing" material to go around the webbing where it passes thru the backplate. Anybody use that or is it another unnecessary piece of BS?
3. How do you set up your cam buckle? Right hand release like a weight belt or left hand release? One of the video's I watched said to set up the cam buckle on the harness for a left hand release to avoid releasing your harness when you want to release your weight belt.
4. Is there anyone in the Portland area that knows where I can get the webbing I need without having to order it from DRI or another .com?
Thanks everyone...
Last edited by LowDrag on Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: BP&W advice needed
The grommet makes life easier if you are using doubles or an STA. It's not at all necessary if you are doing neither.
Anti-chafing material is unnecessary, unless your plate is poorly finished. And even then, it's better to deburr the plate than to fuss with the harness. My singles rig has probably 700+ dives on it, and the webbing has no fraying at the bottom slots.
I'm sorry your wife went with the i3. I think a well-adjusted simple harness system is comfortable for us busty gals and much more functional.
Anti-chafing material is unnecessary, unless your plate is poorly finished. And even then, it's better to deburr the plate than to fuss with the harness. My singles rig has probably 700+ dives on it, and the webbing has no fraying at the bottom slots.
I'm sorry your wife went with the i3. I think a well-adjusted simple harness system is comfortable for us busty gals and much more functional.
"Sometimes, when your world is going sideways, the second best thing to everything working out right, is knowing you are loved..." ljjames
Re: BP&W advice needed
drop me a PM with your physical shipping address, I have a few spare uncut 2" harnesses and would be more than happy to send you one.
"I believe that if life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade... And try to find somebody whose life has given them vodka, and have a party" - Ron White
Re: BP&W advice needed
Thanks Lynne. I figured the eyelet was not a 100% necessary thing and that the anti chafing thing was nonsense. As for the i3, as long as she is comfortable that is my main concern. She just didn't care for the wing setup. She has been researching the i3 and seems to really like the idea. We are going to go looking for one for her to check out this weekend. There still might be hope for her with the BP&W once I get a simple harness on it...we shall see.LCF wrote:The grommet makes life easier if you are using doubles or an STA. It's not at all necessary if you are doing neither.
Anti-chafing material is unnecessary, unless your plate is poorly finished. And even then, it's better to deburr the plate than to fuss with the harness. My singles rig has probably 700+ dives on it, and the webbing has no fraying at the bottom slots.
I'm sorry your wife went with the i3. I think a well-adjusted simple harness system is comfortable for us busty gals and much more functional.
Koos, that is awesome man....thanks. PM sent.kdupreez wrote:drop me a PM with your physical shipping address, I have a few spare uncut 2" harnesses and would be more than happy to send you one.
Re: BP&W advice needed
Next question...
I would like to add a pair of shears to my gear. How do others attach their shears? Is it a waist belt attachment? I have been wondering if using the clips one of the other guys mentioned on another thread would be good for the shoulder straps to hold the shears sheath in place. Or would that get in the way?
Thanks,
Dave
I would like to add a pair of shears to my gear. How do others attach their shears? Is it a waist belt attachment? I have been wondering if using the clips one of the other guys mentioned on another thread would be good for the shoulder straps to hold the shears sheath in place. Or would that get in the way?
Thanks,
Dave
Re: BP&W advice needed
And another question...
This question is about hose routing. My instructor who is a wreck diver says he runs his 7 footer down his right side using rubber bands (not the office type) that are attached to his tank to keep his hose in check. He says he has seen people get hurt by wrapping the hose around their body. How many do the rubber band style vs how many do the "wrap under the right arm, around the back and over the right shoulder route? I watched a UTD video that showed the wrap around technique and it looked very easy to donate the long hose to an OOA diver.
Thanks,
Dave
This question is about hose routing. My instructor who is a wreck diver says he runs his 7 footer down his right side using rubber bands (not the office type) that are attached to his tank to keep his hose in check. He says he has seen people get hurt by wrapping the hose around their body. How many do the rubber band style vs how many do the "wrap under the right arm, around the back and over the right shoulder route? I watched a UTD video that showed the wrap around technique and it looked very easy to donate the long hose to an OOA diver.
Thanks,
Dave
Re: BP&W advice needed
I have never seen nor heard of the "rubber band" style of routing, and seems like it defeats the purpose of having seven feet of hose if you're trapping 2-3' of it.
Down the right side, under the can light canister (or other item to hold the hose in place), up across the chest to the left shoulder and around the neck to the right side of the head is standard routing for 99.9% of divers with a 7' hose.
Down the right side, under the can light canister (or other item to hold the hose in place), up across the chest to the left shoulder and around the neck to the right side of the head is standard routing for 99.9% of divers with a 7' hose.
LowDrag wrote:And another question...
This question is about hose routing. My instructor who is a wreck diver says he runs his 7 footer down his right side using rubber bands (not the office type) that are attached to his tank to keep his hose in check. He says he has seen people get hurt by wrapping the hose around their body. How many do the rubber band style vs how many do the "wrap under the right arm, around the back and over the right shoulder route? I watched a UTD video that showed the wrap around technique and it looked very easy to donate the long hose to an OOA diver.
Thanks,
Dave