Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

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carlk3
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Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by carlk3 »

Can anyone suggest books, articles, or other info on weight training for our cold-water beach diving?

What do you do?

I've resolved to start weight training again and figure I'll focus on getting stronger for beach diving. So far, the best thing I found on the Internet was this (from https://www.divein.com/guide/diving-fit ... ba-diving/):
Muscular fitness

In diving, we tend to carry a lot of heavy gear. A normal dive tank of 12 liters, made of steel, can weigh as much as 15 kg/33 lbs. add to this any other gear and weights you normally carry, and a diver can haul around as much as 25 kg/55 lbs on his or her frame.
To take some of the strain of this, a solid muscular base is useful. As we walk with the scuba gear on our backs, leg and core strength is very important for divers. But for lifting the gear or hauling ourselves into boats, general upper body strength comes in handy, too.

A good, basic training program for a diver can be done in any gym, or, with a little creativity, in your own home, using your body weight for resistance. A starting point could be something like this, a full-body program that can done two or three times a week:

1.Squats
2.Deadlifts
3.Lunges
4.Pullups
5.Push ups or bench presses
6.Shoulder presses
7.Bent-over-rows or inverted pushups
8.Hyperextensions
9.Leg raises
10.Plank

If you’re new to resistance training, these terms may not be familiar to you. It is paramount that you do not try your hand at strength training without proper supervision and guidance into the techniques of each exercise.
- Carl
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GearHead
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by GearHead »

Walking is one of the best forms of exercise, especially if you have good hills in your area. No need for a gym membership, just enjoy some fresh air along with all this liquid sunshine we've been getting. If you wanted to up your game, pick one our local mountains to test your mettle. Or try carrying a day pack with a little weight in it.
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H20doctor
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by H20doctor »

Swimming at the public pool is also a great way to build up cardio
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60south
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by 60south »

+1 for walking, or swimming.

I'm training myself for diving right now, 80% of it brisk aerobic/cardio activity, and the other 20% on weight training for lifting tanks, etc.

I figure gearing-up and getting in/out of the water has the greatest exertion and chance of injury.
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CaptnJack
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by CaptnJack »

Try this, Cameron is a smart guy
http://www.divefitness.com/html/guides.html
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Jeff Pack
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by Jeff Pack »

You really shouldn't do weight training specifically to target scuba. Your list is lacking. Bodybuilding.com has some much better routinesto choose from.

Only exercises I do that's scuba specific, is 8 flights of stairs with 170 pounds of lead on, and 70 pound dumbbell lifts stimulating lifting a scuba tank.

The rest are a mixture of multi joint and single joint exercises, and some isometrics as well. Targeting strength, not body building.
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Echo
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by Echo »

I read an article in the DAN magazine that exercise could be dangerous if done before diving.
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ljjames
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by ljjames »

+1 for CaptnJack's post.

I would also recommend doing full body strength training just like you'd do to get stronger and fitter for every day life, with a bit of extra emphasis on core and balance to protect your back. Tanks and gear are heavy and its not just about carrying it up and down the beach, its rummaging around in the trunk of your car getting your weights and heavy bins, bending over and pulling tanks out of the back of a pickup, gearing up, etc... Being stronger will make all aspects of diving easier. Case in point, moving around in a drysuit with all the layers is simply easier when you are stronger.

Swimming is fine for building overall cardio, but swimming in a pool is not at all like swimming when you are diving so I've never really understood the 'go to pool to get fit for diving' thing. Stairs are an excellent way to build beach diving strength/cardio quickly if your knees are good with it.

Diving is an interesting sport from the exertion point of view, if you are comfortable and efficient in the water it is basically bursts of strength (loading gear etc..) with some mild cardio and a bit of strength (gearing up and possibly surface swim) to not a lot of effort (floating around, frog kicking, etc... assuming there is not a lot of current) to power burst again (hiking gear up beach back to vehicle or up the dock from boat) to unloading truck (more strength than cardio unless you live in a house with lots of stairs). As mentioned, the place where most divers tweak stuff is the gear lugging bit. Cardio and strength make the underwater parts easier when there is current or if you are pushing a lot of gear from a CO2 build up point of view.

Just because you don't need to be strong or fit to have fun in the water doesn't mean some fitness training wouldn't make the overall experience even better, and potentially safer from sprain/strain injury point of view.

Don't forget about flexibility either, some pilates or yoga or whatever stretchy stuff you prefer, as it will pay off 10 fold when it comes to stupid pulled muscle or back/shoulder tweak stuff (and valve drills if tech diving is your ilk)

From personal experience, the better my strength and cardio is and more flexible I am, the better my diving is, and the less tired I feel afterwards. YMMV.

All that said, the best shape i've been in other than actively training for triathlons and fitness comps was when I was work diving daily (but that meant hauling 300' of surface tether in most any current condition the Alki Junkyard had to offer) and I was also running 3-5 miles a day and pilates a couple times a week.

Diving is a great way to get fitter/stronger for diving, but that only really counts if you are doing it 3 or more times a week, just like any exercise program ;)
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carlk3
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by carlk3 »

Thanks for everyone's responses to my query.

I also run, so that gives me good cardio, but "Tyrannosaurus rex"-like spindly arms. I notice the lack of strength mostly moving tanks, etc.. So, while I aspire to improve my strength generally, I figure why not focus on strength that will make scuba more fun.

Any links to recommended strength workouts, much appreciated.

- Carl

p.s. I've ordered Cameron Martz book used via Amazon.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by Jeff Pack »

Echo wrote:I read an article in the DAN magazine that exercise could be dangerous if done before diving.
I lift for 1.5 hours Friday, and Tec dive Saturday. 24 hours is fine. But after a Tec dive, I prefer 48 hours before a heavy lifting routine
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- I got a good squirt in my mouth
- I would imagine that there would be a large amount of involuntary gagging
- I don't know about you but I'm not into swallowing it

CCR discussion on Caustic Cocktails.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by Furnari »

One thing that I hear mentioned even less than dive-related strength training is dive-related ergonomics. Laura hit it on the head about injuries related to gear lugging, so take advantage of lifting/ergonomics training that your employer might offer. An important concept to keep in mind is leverage- holding heavy, wet gear away from your body is a lot harder than holding it in against your dry clothing. Keep you elbows in close to your body, and when you pick up a couple of tanks or weight bags, keep your ass down, knees bent, and your eyes looking straight ahead- it helps keep your spine in it's natural S curve. The normal tendency is to look down at what you're picking up, but when you do that your shoulders arch forward, you lose the proper curve in your neck, and you end up with a lot of stress on your lower back. Try it- you'll see what I mean. We always hear "lift with your legs", but most of us really don't know what that means. Another important idea is to take your time- go slow and keep your feet under you.

I work in occupational safety / work comp, and I notice how much easier it is schlepping around LP95s when I practice what I preach.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by inflex »

Everything revolves around the core, so work on that. Having good core strength and stability is the difference between flailing underwater to get "right" versus a smooth, intentional fin movement.

On gear I have to agree it's more ergonomics. Doesn't matter how strong you are, you can easily hurt yourself moving or lifting a 40-60lb tank.

Heavy cardio and muscles can have an opposite effect on what you want for diving--gentle movements that conserve air. More muscles means more air consumption. High cardio fitness and mentality can put you and your body in a mode where you consume lots of air with rigorous movements just because you are fit and you can. You get used to breathing as much air as you want on land, and then suddenly you'll feel like you're short on air when diving.

Now, I am in no way advocating that fitness is bad when it comes to diving. It's just a mentality and cardio training you have to be aware of and actively fight when underwater. Relax, and use only a small bit of your available strength.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by ljjames »

I have to disagree. Better strength and cardio mean you can do the same work with less effort. Your VO2 max may be higher but this does not mean you are 'consuming more air'...

If you are experiencing those other things (I read rigorous movements as flailing?), then increasing your comfort underwater may be in order with training and gear choices, but that has really very little to do with fitness.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by lamont »

You don't have to 'fight' cardio or strength training underwater at all. Its just a benefit. Every diver should get themselves a little bit fitter than they are.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by lamont »

carlk3 wrote:Can anyone suggest books, articles, or other info on weight training for our cold-water beach diving?

What do you do?
I've been running stairs. Its cardio, and you can push it and get HIIT going up hard and then coming down for the break. It also builds the leg muscles for moving around with tanks and gear on. Been doing 30 minutes of stairs roughly every other day on average. Its also easier on my feet and shins than jogging on hard sidewalks/pavement (or even the treadmill at the gym).

It isn't a full replacement for core strength, though, and I do notice that my core isn't as strong as it could be when I throw on double-130, but it covers a lot of bases.

The cardio/HIIT of the stairs pays off a lot with improving vO2 and lowering SAC rates, the bigger leg muscles mostly help with walking to the water/down stairs with tanks on. Both of which have paid off the past few cave trips to Mexico.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by inflex »

I speak from my own personal experience. I consider myself very fit and work out 5+ times a week involving both cardio and weights. I also participate in very physically demanding activities and sports.

There's no question that when your body and mind are used to consuming air at very high rates, the tendency is to do the same underwater. You absolutely do have to mentally fight the urge to utilize your "fitness and strength" and slow down.

Effort is dictated by physics, not fitness. Fitness dictates what your max effort can be. More fitness means it's easier to unnecessarily expend effort, something to be very aware of.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by Desert Diver »

Once again, some of the divers I know that use the least air are fat and out of shape. Not good to be that way but it doesn't have much to do with air usage. Probably if you were going underwater to swim at maximum speed you would use less air by being in perfect condition at a perfect weight, but that isn't what we do.

Just got back from Q. Roo. I dove with my friend the fisherman on his boat and took him tourist diving in Cozumel. Following him while he works I use a lot more air, maybe 25% more so it was interesting to find myself coming up with 800+ pounds on an AL80 while he was at 200 pounds on Palancar wall. He is a foot shorter than me, in a lot better shape, dives 20 times more and is capable of lifting more and about 15 years younger, but all that doesn't mean anything floating in the current off Coz.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by lamont »

I speak from my own personal experience backed up by cave diving where your SAC rate translates directly into how far you can get into cave. Also from dropping from 230 down to 190. At my most fit and light and cardio conditioned, I've been able to impress my cave instructors with how much we've been able to accomplish on a single dive.

I guarantee that you're overall better off 10# lighter with more cardio and more muscle and lower bodyfat than the inverse.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by lamont »

Also I have enough passing medical knowledge of cardio fitness and VO2 to know that you're both completely wrong from a medical perspective as well.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by CaptnJack »

Smokers also tend to use less air, but pay for it in other ways. Improving cardio fitness and Vo2 is verifiably the best way to reduce consumption, way better than adding insulating blubber with another burger.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by Desert Diver »

Lamont, I would have no doubt you are right except for my 30 years of diving with big/fat people who were the last ones back on the boat and diving with tiny fit people who often use more air than me. All things being equal, a small fit person will use less air than a large, unfit person, but things usually are not equal. It may be experience and age, or it may be that fat people have learned how to not expend energy.

One of my dive buddies in Q. Roo this year is my age and did weigh more than me. He is down to quite a bit less than me now. He has been really frustrated because he just uses 30% more air than I do. Lots of things involved, trim among them. I had him talk to the fat guy on the boat that doesn't seem to use any air. One thing he asked my friend was if he was a runner. He said they often have problems with runners using a lot of air.

This of course has nothing to do with being able to get in and out of the water carrying lots of gear. That takes muscle and experience. In my opinion the experience is more important than the muscle.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by ljjames »

OP wrote "I'll focus on getting stronger for beach diving" which leads me to believe he's interested more in what Lamont and rjack have to offer than 'stay fat and out of shape to consume less gas cause running, getting fit, building muscle and working out make you a hoover'.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by inflex »

Also I have enough passing medical knowledge of cardio fitness and VO2 to know that you're both completely wrong from a medical perspective as well.
Sorry, but fitness raises SAC plain and simple. No way to get around the basic facts of metabolism.

Now, you could argue that weight loss will result in a better SAC rate, and you'd be right. However, pound for pound, the fitter person with a higher vO2 Max will consume more air.

And, reading the OP's posts tells me OP is interested in building arm strength, ie bulking up arm muscle, as a major motivation. More muscle is higher sac, no way around it.

No one is advocating not getting fit, but it is important to get your facts straight.
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by lamont »

Desert Diver wrote:Lamont, I would have no doubt you are right except for my 30 years of diving with big/fat people who were the last ones back on the boat and diving with tiny fit people who often use more air than me. All things being equal, a small fit person will use less air than a large, unfit person, but things usually are not equal. It may be experience and age, or it may be that fat people have learned how to not expend energy.
Seriously you should just stop with this logic.

I can guarantee you that the cave instructors that are skinny and run and work out down there will beat the fat cave tourists who show up and have too many margs. I've been one of the latter and its easy to measure when you call that its time to drop stages and you and your tourist buddies tanks need to be tied down because otherwise they'd cork to the ceiling, while the skinny in-shape instructor's stage is stuck on the bottom because it's still 3/4 full. I've also gotten in better shape and my SAC rate goes down, not up.

That's a wonderful rationalization you've got for cramming pizza and margs into your mouth, though, to be able to point to someone else skinnier than you who uses more gas... I can also guarantee you that your theory is wrong and if you got into better shape you'd use less gas. I don't have to point to someone else who is different from me for any number of unknown reasons, I can just tell you that as I got fitter I used less gas.

And its trivial to find small fit people who have high SAC rate if you look for people who are simply inexperienced or diving over their level of comfort and that isn't hard to explain. If you're fat and like floating around because its zero-g then you'll be better off than the average uncomfortable diver. And what matters most is what is floating around in their noggin--they can have 1,000 dives and still not be entirely relaxed underwater. Look at them, and you can easily see a fitter person with worse air consumption, but fitness isn't the issue. And I can point to extremely fit divers that I'm positive use less gas than you (even though they're crippled by being 'fit' apparently in your world).
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Re: Advice needed for Weight Training for Scuba

Post by lamont »

inflex wrote:
Also I have enough passing medical knowledge of cardio fitness and VO2 to know that you're both completely wrong from a medical perspective as well.
Sorry, but fitness raises SAC plain and simple. No way to get around the basic facts of metabolism.

Now, you could argue that weight loss will result in a better SAC rate, and you'd be right. However, pound for pound, the fitter person with a higher vO2 Max will consume more air.

And, reading the OP's posts tells me OP is interested in building arm strength, ie bulking up arm muscle, as a major motivation. More muscle is higher sac, no way around it.

No one is advocating not getting fit, but it is important to get your facts straight.
For the same workload the vO2 and VE will be the same. In divers with higher vO2 max, however, their ventilation and anerobic thresholds will be higher. One a diver goes over those thresholds doubling the workload more than doubles the VE, and that will happen at lower workloads in less fit divers.

Not to mention the correlations with higher rates of DCS, Dysbaric Osteonecrosis, and a whole host of other issues.

Indeed, facts need to be kept straight.

Its also possible that the fat low-SAC folks on this thread are natural CO2 retainers. That is the also mechanism behind lower SAC rates for smokers, but as Bennet and Elliott notes: "The ability to tolerate CO2 exposure probably has enabled many divers to function exceptionally well in terms of work capacity, depth and air requirements under some conditions. The same CO2 tolerance under other conditions could make such divers the first to develop an O2 convulsion, the most susceptible to N2 narcosis, the most likely to lose consciousness, and perhaps the most prone to decompression sickness (DCS) [...] Lambertson et al (1959) suggested that perhaps CO2 retainers are the _only_ individuals who develop O2 toxicity much more readily during exercise. For example, seemingly incompatible conclusions concerning safe O2 limits might be explained by this relationship.."
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