Skills needed for technical diving

[dsteding]

So, a few conversations--plus my ongoing technical training--prompted this thread. I've answered these questions for myself ahead of starting down the path, but I thought it might be helpful to start a thread on the subject here. Here we go:

It seems that, as we all mature as divers, more of us are getting into technical diving.

What is your perspective on the base level of skills needed for the following:

1) to begin technical training

and

2) to be a competent technical diver.

For me, solid buoyancy and a grasp of the basic skills (donating air, manipulating valves, shooting an SMB, mask skills) were what I wanted going into my training.

Coming out of it, I hope I have the ability to do all the above, plus keep to the schedule when the crap hits the fan. To do that I've needed to expand my ability to handle task loading mid-water. My instructor general believes you should be able to handle at least two problems, such as a maskless diver and an OOA diver while still keeping the deco schedule. Not because those two problems will necessarily happen, but because if you train for that, the regular dives become a bit easier to handle. And, when a real failure happens, dealing with it doesn't mean you die.

Today, for instance, we spent some time maskless doing ascents from ~50 fsw. Good day for it because you couldn't see much with the vis anyways.

Maskless ascents obviously don't have much to do with reality. Reality is if you lose your mask, you put on the backup. But, they provide a great training opportunity. The diver who has a mask get to to practice three things (schedule, managing the maskless diver, keeping track of the upline) and it provided the maskless diver the chance to refine buoyancy skills. We also practiced buddy breathing and snapped off a couple valve drills at the end of the dive.

There is an obvious companion thread to this regarding what type of experience is needed (I am thinking of our discussion re balance in the dive education forum). I'll get to that once this thread runs it course.

[Burntchef]

1) maturity- imo you really need to accept the fact that you are now entering a whole different game, and now more then ever your choices underwater have to be clear.

2) humility- you have to be able to laugh at yourself when you f**k up. plain and simple if you are going to get all pouty and whiny every time you flub a skill you should take up a different hobby. this mostly applies to class sessions where you are going to be a gomer at some point. allthough i love to break my buddies huevos as much as possible underwater.

3) desire- why tech? is all the really cheap gear cool!! or do you have a real goal and want to continue to learn and push yourself towarsds that goal. i know for me its to check out some of the history we have localy in our waters that a tiny fraction of people will ever see or even know about.

so for me it is all mental, skills can be taught and learned to any able body but the proper mindset is what keeps you alive and happy.


just the otrher day i met 2 other buddies at the oil dock for a nice long deep tech dive, we made a plan, geared up, hauled all our gear down to the beach, then surface swam all the freaking way out to the end of the pier!!. the water was a bit choppy so we decided to do safety check at the bottom. just as we hit bottom i check my spg and sure enough there were tiny champagne bubbles coming from it, now i thought to myself holy sh** are you freaking kidding me!! do i ignore it or turn the dive?? well without even showing the issue to my buds i signalled to turn the dive and no one questioned it.

so that is why mental is my biggest point, had my ego gotten in the way or had i been embarrased to tell my buddies to turn the dive who knows what could of happened at depth. it could of been a great a awesome dive or it could of went south real quick.

[dsteding]

Good post Howard, I was thinking more along the line of in-water skills, but, undoubtedly, the points you make above are a huge part of technical diving.

I've found it to be mostly mental and about slowing down underwater when faced with a problem. Huge part of it, and I suppose the mental component is indeed a "skill" needed as well.

[BDub]

90% of diving is mental, IMHO....

As for the question about entering tech training....

Buoyancy/trim/kicks, and understanding how they work together, need to be instinctual. Critical skills, such as OOG and mask skills need to be instinctual, as well as smb deployment and comfort in the water column.

If those are proficient, you'll have the bandwidth available to handle the new skills that will be presented to you in Tech 1. If you're still consciously thinking about maintaining your stop, how are you going to be able to do a gas switch, or keep on the schedule, etc? Going off of your comment about handling 2 "problems"....I think you could also say you can handle 2 skills that require a conscious effort...a gas switch, and keeping the schedule will require a conscious effort, if the skills are new to you. In other words, you're going to have to make a conscious effort when making a gas switch, while still keeping the schedule...that's two tasks. Even then, many divers will get so fixated on the gas switch, the schedule will become secondary. Those 2 tasks aren't split evenly. The first task or problem is gonna get 80% of the resources, and the second one is going to get whatever's left. If you still have to concentrate on holding your depth, that's 3 tasks and everything will fall apart very fast.

[Joshua Smith]

Good idea for a thread.I've been thinking about this a lot, lately. I just completed my full CCR trimix class, and I'm pretty new as a tech diver- I've been planning and executing "technical dives" for a little more than a year and a half, but I'm in that "the more I learn, the less I know" kinda place right now.

I have a card that says I can do dives down to 330 fsw on my rebreather, but it's going to be a while before I do anything quite that deep. I really went about learning to dive with a passion. I've never found anything in life that compares to diving- or how I feel when I'm diving. I absolutely love it, and I intend to dive for as long as I can. I've heard a few people tell me that I was going too fast- and I laughed it off. We all learn at our own speed. I'm fairly intelligent, and I love the water. Even though I grew up in the high deserts of New Mexico, my Mom taught me how to swim at such a young age, that I don't remember "learning" how to swim- it's just something I've always known how to do, from my perspective. (Mom was a State swimming champion back in Maine, where she grew up.) Anyway, I just couldn't get enough, when I started out- diving 3-4 times a week, if I could get away with it. And I always wanted new, and harder, challenges. I loved it, when, during my rescue class, my buddy Jason, who was Tattoo Bob's assistant instructor, would grab my shoulder after the pool session, and do Divemaster skills with me in the deep end: "Let's sink our rigs in the deep end, swim down, put them on, and then buddy breathe into the shallows!" "OK, that was fun- let's swim back down to the deep end, and switch gear underwater!" I loved that stuff. And I've been seeking more, and bigger challenges for my entire diving career- all two and a half years, and......I don't even know, because I stopped logging my dives a year and a half ago.....300? dives. Maybe more. Anyway, I've finally found a level that I'm comfortable with, and that I need to stop and work at for a while. For me, everything changes around 200 feet- trimix, deco schedules, multiple bailout bottles, teamwork, and a closed circuit rebreather is a lot of stuff to keep track of. Just when I was getting comfortable at 200, I did an open circuit bailout from 200 feet in the lake for class, and it was an eye opener for me- one of the more miserable dives I've ever had. Keeping track of my OC buoyancy (with all those bubbles! And noise! And cold, dry, breathing gas! Jesus, I didn't realize how much I loved my rebreather until that moment!) as well as venting the gas from my rebreather loop, switching my computer over to OC, following my bailout deco schedule, doing a gas switch to my deco bottle, and trying to stay with the team......it was pretty bad. If one of the other divers had needed something from me during that ascent, I honestly don't think I could have helped them. I was too busy tring to get my own ass back to the surface. And it made me think: what if this happened out it the sound, in current, on a wreck, where losing the line would be damn near life-and-death? I'm pretty comfortable doing dives to 200- or a bit deeper- right now, but I'm going to be trying to practice OC bailouts whenever I can, and working up to the bigger dives slowly. How many CCR divers out there practice OC bailouts? I should probably start a different thread in the CCR section for that question, come to think of it.....

Anyway, it seems obvious that solid buoyancy skills are important, as well as equipment familiarity, teamwork, and all that stuff. But I think there's something else required to be a good technical diver, too.(OC or CCR) Some of the people I dive with these days have been doing deep, dark, scary dives for a long time, and I'm fortunate to be diving with, and learning from, them. I'm gonna try and hang back and see if I can learn something new, here. Sorry for the long ramble in the preceeding paragraph.

[Joshua Smith]

just the otrher day i met 2 other buddies at the oil dock for a nice long deep tech dive, we made a plan, geared up, hauled all our gear down to the beach, then surface swam all the freaking way out to the end of the pier!!. the water was a bit choppy so we decided to do safety check at the bottom. just as we hit bottom i check my spg and sure enough there were tiny champagne bubbles coming from it, now i thought to myself holy sh** are you freaking kidding me!! do i ignore it or turn the dive?? well without even showing the issue to my buds i signalled to turn the dive and no one questioned it.

so that is why mental is my biggest point, had my ego gotten in the way or had i been embarrased to tell my buddies to turn the dive who knows what could of happened at depth. it could of been a great a awesome dive or it could of went south real quick.

Yeah, well, you did insist on paying for my beers after the dive, so you're OK in my book! No, just kidding, I would have paid for yours, if you hadn't insisted!- that was a good dive, in my book, because we did the right thing- anybody can turn the dive at any time, for any reason- no questions asked. we did the right thing- no discussion, we just turned around and headed back. THAT's a huge part of tech diving. Or any diving, for that matter.

[LCF]

Well, I'm going to approach this from the cave diving standpoint, because that's the technical diving I do.

But I think it generalizes.

The single most important skill you need to do overhead (virtual or real) diving, is the ability to remain composed and thoughtful in the face of problems. It's nice to have perfect skills, but even in the absence of them, you can stay safe if you can continue to think. I had a dive with Andrew where we were a team of three, and Peter and Kirk got involved in something and lost buoyancy and headed for the surface. I had a post failure, I think, and went to inflate my wing and lost my inflator hose, which had come out of its bungie loop and gone missing. I felt back for it and still couldn't find it, and I was sinking. I had no drysuit inflate because of the post failure. No drysuit, no wing, and a need to surface . . . Well, now is when you find out if you have a balanced rig. So I went vertical and SWAM, and I did fine. As it turned out, the lost inflator hose WASN'T Andrew's doing, and video shows it was JUST beyond where I was looking for it, so he was rather nonplused at my strategy. But what I knew was that I didn't stop thinking, and I didn't give up, and I kept looking for solutions, and I got to the surface all by myself in the face of a total -- redundant -- buoyancy failure.

You can have all the buoyancy control and the trim and the perfect valve drills . . . But if you can't keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you shouldn't be in an overhead environment, whether virtual or real. I keep my head well. It's just my midwater buoyancy I lose. And there is no midwater in caves :-)

Good thread, Doug.

[dsteding]

You can have all the buoyancy control and the trim and the perfect valve drills . . . But if you can't keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you shouldn't be in an overhead environment, whether virtual or real. I keep my head well. It's just my midwater buoyancy I lose. And there is no midwater in caves :-)

Good thread, Doug.

Awesome post Lynne-

On the last point, I find that this is where the rubber really meets the road, and where I believe an instructor really needs to teach to.

It is one of the great things about Andrew, he is looking for the lights to go on. We really didn't get hammered about trim much, we did get a talking to about buoyancy a bit, but this was after the first part and in preparation for the next.

As you are aware, one of my early bugaboos in cold water diving was no-mask work. By way of background, I have a strong "mammalian" reflex that basically closes off my nose and makes it feel like I can breathe when I get cold water on my face. Others may recall me spending time with my face in ice water in the kitchen sink to prepare for fundies, and although I have bascially conquered the reflex, it is something that will always be there from a physiological perspective.

That alone is one reason I do no-mask work. I can still feel the niggles of anxiety every time the cold water hits my face, and I still--to this day--have to slow down and focus on my breathing a bit when the mask first comes off. Once I adjust to the cold water, it is just a regular ole' ice cream headache.

Point being, I don't think tech training is adequate unless it introduces yourself to your limits in some controlled environment. You need to find the edges of anxiety and be aware that panic lurks in the alligator brain of all of us. The threshhold for that panic can be pushed far enough back by training and experience, which is so important in tech training.

DCS doesn't scare me too much. Panic scares the crap out of me, either by a buddy or myself. I can say I've been there underwater as a newer diver, and I have a healthy respect for the irrational decisions the panicked mind will make. Those are the decisions that will kill you: bolting for the surface, a desparation grab for the wrong bottle and breathing a gas way below its MOD, thrashing violently in a cave/wreck and blowing out the vis.

As a result, I work diligently to push my anxiety threshhold back, increase my comfort in the water, and work within my defined limits. And, I wouldn't be doing this training if I didn't firmly believe I could control my alligator brain underwater.

[Sounder]

That alone is one reason I do no-mask work. I can still feel the niggles of anxiety every time the cold water hits my face, and I still--to this day--have to slow down and focus on my breathing a bit when the mask first comes off. Once I adjust to the cold water, it is just a regular ole' ice cream headache.

I, too, have to slow down and focus on breathing when my mask first comes off... it shocks me and while we learn to handle it, I don't think I'll even "get used to it."

As for the ice cream headache/brain-freeze thing... that just requires training: Icee's, ice cream, popsicles, etc.

[Pez7378]

Thanks for the thread Doug. I'll be following along closely, and if I need help with any of the big words, I'll call....... Joe?.....

I'm not real confident in my skills right now, but I'm not sure if it's humility or reality. I think I would be much more concerned if I thought I had everything I've learned nailed and there was nothing left to learn recreationally. We'll soon see as I take BDubs Intro to Tech class. I think that this will be a great way for me to decide for myself if Tech training is something I really want to pursue and if the skills are there. At this point, I will be completely satisfied if I leave knowing that I will be a much more educated and stronger Recreational diver.

I'm a little apprehensive, but only because I have been comfortable doing what I've been doing, and now I will be doing something a bit more challenging. It's a bit reminescent of my first few open water dives, and my first deep dive, and my first night dive, boat dive, AOW, Rescue etc. I think that what I'm experiencing right now is quite normal and I'm certain I will learn the skills needed to pursue technical training if I choose to.

[Joshua Smith]

I'm not real confident in my skills right now, but I'm not sure if it's humility or reality............................................................................................... I'm certain I will learn the skills needed to pursue technical training if I choose to.

Oh, you'll be just fine, Chris. You definitely have the skills, and your weird, demented laughter on the surface unnerves everyone so much that they'll be shaky in the water; which will make you look better by comparison.

[dsteding]

I'm not real confident in my skills right now, but I'm not sure if it's humility or reality............................................................................................... I'm certain I will learn the skills needed to pursue technical training if I choose to.

Oh, you'll be just fine, Chris. You definitely have the skills, and your weird, demented laughter on the surface unnerves everyone so much that they'll be shaky in the water; which will make you look better by comparison.

I agree with Josh on all points. Being a bit apprehensive going into this is a good thing, I think, keeps you humble.

[EDIT] and, thinking about this a bit more-and knowing you, Chris, an intro class like the one Brian is starting to teach is the perfect place to go in with an open mind like you are doing. Who cares if your skills suck at this point (although they probably don't). I don't believe in the practice for the class model, take the class, get exposure to skills, and then go polish them doing real dives.

[johnbenway]

Some of the most imporant skills needed for tech diving?
Judgement. Experience. Situational Awareness.
These only come from diving.
Sorry, take all the classes you want
drill until you are drilling in your sleep
but do not confuse education with experience
An example. Burntchef talks about calling a dive just as it starts.
Would a fresh padi diver with three dives have had the confidence
to call that dive? Or would he/she have tried to push it out to
keep up with the team? Now apply that to a technical dive.
Planned for months, thousands of dollars in gear, dozens of training dives,
hundreds on the dive charter and when you get to the site can you look your
excited, geared up and stoked buddy in the eye and say 'Sorry not today,
maybe next time?'
It is easy to say, but very hard to do no matter what was pre agreed to.
How many dive tragedies started with one (usually junior)
member of the team feeling uneasy but pressured?
After you make a few mistakes, after you get in a few situations you do not
feel comfortable with, it is easy to tell a buddy/instructor to piss up a rope if
they push you to go where you do not want to be.
Posters keep refering to buoyancy. Is it important? Absolutely
But what good is obsessing about keeping your fins 8 cm higher or touching an upline
if the dive goes to shit?
Valve drills? Line skills? Holding a stop? etc...IMHO these are all important
But they are all part of the big picture, They are not the entire canvass.

Dives.
Lots and Lots of Dives.
Different Dives at Different Places with Different Buddies.

[dsteding]

Oh God, what is the world coming to, I am agreeing with our friend from Vancouver Island.

John, you make some great points-I've approached technical diving in general by building experience, and Andrew consistently has admonished his students to not spend endless time in Cove 2 drilling.

Does that mean I don't practice skills? No, it means I pay attention to skills and go do dives-I've been in Cove 2 maybe 12 times in the last year, and the majority of those dives were for classes (ironically enough).

You may have missed this discussion on balance:

http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php ... 4&start=30

I think at the end of the day we need some balance. For what it is worth, and coming from my limited experience in the subject, you do need a base level of skills to do technical diving safely (I'm refering to the in-water skills in the classic sense of the word). You also need good judgment and the right mental attitude for sure (I'd call that mindset, we've touched on that here too.

I'd ask you, however, what is worse? Card-punching instructors that don't empasize skills enough (resulting in "too far too fast") or instructors that emphasize skills too much (resulting in perfect buoyancy but no experience).

[johnbenway]

[I'd ask you, however, what is worse? Card-punching instructors that don't empasize skills enough (resulting in "too far too fast") or instructors that emphasize skills too much (resulting in perfect buoyancy but no experience).[/quote]

OOOOHHH tough one!
The card punching instuctors bother me as I may end up on a charter with a diver card certified but not qualified.

The skills instrucors bother me as I may end up on a charter with a diver who looks good, talks the talk, and then
fails to deliver.
The card certified divers are usually easier to spot as soon as you hit the water, but the perfect skills/no experience divers are more dangerous because when the shit hits the fan, all you get is a blank stare.

I do however, reserve a special disgust for the divers who collect cards all they way to super trimix lemon wedge instuctor,
and begin to certify divers to do dives that they have never attempted themselves. Fully educated/No experience.

Something to remember. No one was born with experience. Some one else had to slow down and show us.
Return the favor. Try not to thwart someones quest for experience, if your dive is a little smaller today to help
them out, it just might save your ass tomorrow.

[Joshua Smith]

I do however, reserve a special disgust for the divers who collect cards all they way to super trimix lemon wedge instuctor

OK, WHERE DO I GET MY SUPER TRIMIX LEMON WEDGE INSTRUCTOR CARD? Because I really, really need one.

[Zen Diver]

I do however, reserve a special disgust for the divers who collect cards all they way to super trimix lemon wedge instuctor

OK, WHERE DO I GET MY SUPER TRIMIX LEMON WEDGE INSTRUCTOR CARD? Because I really, really need one.

Personally, I'm holding out for the New and Improved Super Trimix Lemon Wedge Instructor Card.

[spatman]

OK, WHERE DO I GET MY SUPER TRIMIX LEMON WEDGE INSTRUCTOR CARD? Because I really, really need one.

that'll be $350 for the course and the card, please.

Personally, I'm holding out for the New and Improved Super Trimix Lemon Wedge Instructor Card.

sorry, val, but you have to pass the super trimix lemon wedge class first.

[Joshua Smith]

OK, WHERE DO I GET MY SUPER TRIMIX LEMON WEDGE INSTRUCTOR CARD? Because I really, really need one.

that'll be $350 for the course and the card, please.

Personally, I'm holding out for the New and Improved Super Trimix Lemon Wedge Instructor Card.

sorry, val, but you have to pass the super trimix lemon wedge class first.

Dude. You freaking rule.

[Joshua Smith]

WooT!!!!! I have the coolest sig, EVER. THANKS, SPATMAN!

[spatman]

Dude. You freaking rule.

glad you like it.

the funny thing is that you really could get one.

[Joshua Smith]

Dude. You freaking rule.

glad you like it.

the funny thing is that you really could get one.

Lemme see here- I have Certs from PADI, TDI, IANTD, and I've audited a NAUI class......pretty sure none of them offer "Super Trimix". And with a Lemon Wedge? Well, that takes it to a whole new level, doesn't it?

[Zen Diver]

OK, WHERE DO I GET MY SUPER TRIMIX LEMON WEDGE INSTRUCTOR CARD? Because I really, really need one.

that'll be $350 for the course and the card, please.

Personally, I'm holding out for the New and Improved Super Trimix Lemon Wedge Instructor Card.

sorry, val, but you have to pass the super trimix lemon wedge class first.

Can I get a special deal if I combine Regular Super Trimix Lemon Wedge and New and Improved Super Trimix Lemon Wedge courses, and then take the Instuctor course??

[Pez7378]

Geez, I thought this tech diving stuff was supposed to be serious?

Josh and Doug, thanks for the vote of confidence, of course I appreciate your input, but the proof is in the pudding. When Brian tells me I've got the skills, then I'll know I have a foundation to work with.

And for once, Benway had some useful things to say.

Super Trimix Lemon Wedge Instructor!

[Joshua Smith]

Geez, I thought this tech diving stuff was supposed to be serious?

Yep. Deadly serious. No fun involved, just steely-eyed men and women with grim faces doing battle with the ocean.