Flatfish Baseline around Mukilteo

Fish & Invertebrate sightings and descriptions, hosted by resident NWDC ID expert Janna Nichols (nwscubamom).
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Marek Sk
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Flatfish Baseline around Mukilteo

Post by Marek Sk »

Flatfish Baseline around Mukilteo
Emilyrc opened a posting recently titled "funny colored sole at mukilteo".
I could have responded again directly to that posting but decided to make it into separate much wider posting.
I think for all new divers and the old ones who started an interest in who are "our neighbors" it would be first good to establish some BASELINE to determine what is expected /common /frequent and what is rare sighting.
It is really difficult to give any help just based on the written only description.
You know: “Picture tells more than a thousand words”.

I have been relatively frequently diving in Mukilteo: Geo Dome area, the Oil Dock and Lighthouse Park. With latest Lighthouse Park most frequently.

COLORATION & IDENTIFICATION:
What I have also learned from REEF Coach Laurel LaFever :notworthy: is that the coloration should never be a first determination of fish identification. It all started from my question about Sculpin coloration around Mukilteo. Some have white stripes or half white coloration along the body some across and some are totally white. Laurel told me that Sculpin can change their color and pattern from day to day so even the same fish can have different coloration pattern next day. Not as quick as Octopus but still.
Flatfish cannot hide in the crevices due to their large body therefore I would expect changes in the pattern even faster than Sculpins.
Please click on each picture you want to zoom in. Twice for largest zoom.
Mostly white Sculpin - "miniture Moby Dick"
Mostly white Sculpin - "miniture Moby Dick"
Please note that the Flatfish are some of the most difficult subjects to photograph as they not only blend in into the environment but often cover themselves or bury themselves in the sand or silt.

I am still learning therefore I would refer to the Experts to confirm further my classifications and identifications below.
At least you will "get the picture" to what is out there even if I have not classified it 100% accuretly.

BASELINE:
(again based on my photos and experience diving in Mukilteo)

Most common 2 Larger Flatfish with Right Eye around Mukilteo are English Sole and Rock Sole.
Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish them at least for me when they are in motion and the rounded tail fin can actually look like straight cut off of an English Sole but still be a Rock Sole. Eye visibility in English Sole to the other side is not that obvious from the pictures. Rounder shape of Rock Sole is not that clear determination either.
Please click on each picture you want to zoom in. Twice for largest zoom.
Rock Sole
Rock Sole
Rock Sole
Rock Sole
Rock Sole
Rock Sole
English Sole
English Sole
English Sole
English Sole
English Sole
English Sole
English Sole most likely or Rock Sole (more round but tail cut off straight and eye sticking out potentially to be seen on other side)
English Sole most likely or Rock Sole (more round but tail cut off straight and eye sticking out potentially to be seen on other side)
Please note that juveniles of any flatfish can be a real challenge like a one here I am assuming is here next to the one much more mature.
Two Right Eye Soles (younger and older, I think, or male female may be?)
Two Right Eye Soles (younger and older, I think, or male female may be?)

Most common 2 smaller Flatfish with Left Eye around Mukilteo is Pacific Sanddab & Speckled Sanddab
These guys are also not always easy to distinguish. E.g. whether pectoral fin reaches the eye or not. I cannot see the ridge above the eye even in Andy Lamb Book “Coastal Fishes .of P. NW”. Based on this book I see that eyes of Pacific Sanddab are bigger in relation to its body and that the tail is more cut off like in English Sole.
Please click on each picture you want to zoom in. Twice for largest zoom.
Speckled Sanddab
Speckled Sanddab
Speckled Sanddab
Speckled Sanddab
Pacific Sanddab
Pacific Sanddab
Pacific Sanddab
Pacific Sanddab
Pacific Sanddab ? a bit unusual
Pacific Sanddab ? a bit unusual

Less common are C-O Soles, Starry Flounders, Rock Soles with a Left Eye

I am only including pictures of more rare looks as you can easily spot Starry Flounder and more adult C-O Soles.
Please click on each picture you want to zoom in. Twice for largest zoom.
C_O Sole young
C_O Sole young
C_O Sole young
C_O Sole young
C_O Sole young
C_O Sole young
Pacific Sanddab or left eye Rock Sole ?
Pacific Sanddab or left eye Rock Sole ?
Pacific Sanddab or left eye Rock Sole ?
Pacific Sanddab or left eye Rock Sole ?
PUZZLE:How do you identify this one when it either has no tail fin or curled it under ?!
Fish Identity Crisis ;( :questionmarks: :der: :uh:
Or there is no tale to tell about the tail ! RRR... ;) :pirate:
"You cant be a pirate with all of your parts. RRR..."
Sole lost or curled his tail. Pirate Sole (lost) or just ashamed (curled) ;)
Sole lost or curled his tail. Pirate Sole (lost) or just ashamed (curled) ;)
Do "Right Things" rather than "things right".
Conquer your fears & you will be blessed with inner peace & serenity.


I feed "Good Wolf", learn from Eagles, smell Rose Anemones & dance with Sea Stars.
I respect ALL Creatures & Diversity.
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Greg Jensen
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Re: Flatfish Baseline around Mukilteo

Post by Greg Jensen »

Although it's hard to be 100% certain due to the angle of some of the pictures, all of your sanddab and sanddab(?) images are of speckled sanddabs, and all of your rock and English sole pics are of rock sole. The tail-less one at the end does appear to be an English sole.
There's a lot of confusion about the i.d.'s of some of the flatfish, in part because many i.d. guides are geared toward trawl-caught fish rather than live ones underwater. Adding to the problem is the fact that some of the diver guides don't have it right either- the first edition of Humann's book has a picture of a speckled for a Pacific sanddab, and Whelks to Whales has a rock sole in the English sole slot.
I'm on my way out to dive right now so I don't have time to post pictures and point out the differences to look for, but once you know them, they are very easy to tell apart (except for the juveniles).
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Greg Jensen
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Re: Flatfish Baseline around Mukilteo

Post by Greg Jensen »

Here are some comparison pictures, chosen because they're the most equivalent in terms of positioning.
First rock sole:
rock sole.jpg
and English sole:
English sole.jpg
Note the much larger, much more obvious scales of the rock sole and the differences in the head. The overall body outline of rock sole is wider, while English are fairly slender with a pointed head. Rock sole eyes can really stick out (almost like those of a c-o sole) but they can also scrunch them down, making them look somewhat different.

As for sanddabs- speckled are the ones you see most often, and will follow divers hoping their fins will uncover some goodies from the sand.
Speckled:
speckled sanddab red.jpg
Pacific sanddabs have big, chunky heads and get much larger (16 in vs 5-7 in)
Pacific:
Pacific sanddab.jpg
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Marek Sk
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Re: Flatfish Baseline around Mukilteo

Post by Marek Sk »

Thank you so much Greg ! :notworthy: :joshsmith:
These examples are so clear and easy to compare I am sure many divers from NWDC forum will now be able to better distinguish these species.
If it could have been Sculpins I would have first refer to your free Christmas Present book “Pacific Northwest Sculpins (3.0)” available for download on http://www.molamarine.com. :supz:
If it could have been Crabs or Shrimps I would have go first to your book I purchased “Crabs and Shrimps of the Pacific Coast”. :supz:
I really love these two books ! :clap: :luv:
They are brilliant and so relevant to our Diving in Puget Sound and Salish Sea /Whidbey Island.
Do "Right Things" rather than "things right".
Conquer your fears & you will be blessed with inner peace & serenity.


I feed "Good Wolf", learn from Eagles, smell Rose Anemones & dance with Sea Stars.
I respect ALL Creatures & Diversity.
User avatar
Marek Sk
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Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:18 pm

Re: Flatfish Baseline around Mukilteo

Post by Marek Sk »

Curt "Oldsalt" told me that Mukilteo area used to be abundant with Starry Flounders. I have only seen them ocassionally in this area over last two years.
I am adding two pictures for the reference:
Please click on each picture you want to zoom in. Twice for largest zoom.
Starry Flounder
Starry Flounder
Starry Flounder
Starry Flounder
Do "Right Things" rather than "things right".
Conquer your fears & you will be blessed with inner peace & serenity.


I feed "Good Wolf", learn from Eagles, smell Rose Anemones & dance with Sea Stars.
I respect ALL Creatures & Diversity.
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