The Good, The Bad, And The Plain Old Weird

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spatman
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The Good, The Bad, And The Plain Old Weird

Post by spatman »

Hi folks,

We had a weird day diving yesterday. As a way of processing what happened, I need to write it down, so I hope you all don’t mind me posting it here.



2/10/08 – Redondo Beach

Yesterday, D-money and I met Bob Bailey for D’s drysuit certification class. After a talk at Bob’s house we headed down to Redondo Beach for his checkout dives. Pez was there waiting when we arrived, and some introductions and BSing ensued. As we were getting ready, D somehow managed to roll a tank onto his mask, smashing the strap hinge. Luckily, Bob had an extra mask. Once we were geared up, Pez and I went for a splash while D worked with Bob on his drysuit skills.

The tide was very low as Pez and I entered the water and surface swam out to the end of the research pier through some small 1’ swells kicked up by the wind. Dropping down, we found the viz to be pretty bad, maybe 5’ at most. We followed the ropes along through the various structures and small wrecks out to the VW. Not a lot of life visible, but a few dorids, a Grunt Sculpin, Gunnels, etc. The Ling was still at the old stove guarding the eggs, and the VW looked a lot different this time, with the roof caved in.

At a couple points during the dive, I somehow hooked my elbow into my octo hose and pulled it free from it’s holder. Pez was kind enough to replace it, but I definitely need to change that setup. I think I’m going to have it converted to the long hose rig that many folks here us.

We joked around during our surface interval, while Pez packed up and bid adieu. Bob, D, and I splashed for our second dive as the wind kicked up a little and the tides started to come back in. As we entered the shallows, somehow both of D’s fins popped off, which caused us to spend a few minutes performing a sloppy search and recovery in 4’ of murky water. Eventually both were recovered, and tightly secured to his feet.

We followed a similar path as Pez and I did earlier. D was struggling a bit with his buoyancy and also having a hard time with his trim, partly because of an ill-fitting weight belt that slid up and down his torso. A few times Bob had to wrangle D (and probably me) back into some semblance of a formation. It seemed that he may have been distracted by his task load, and wasn’t paying as close of attention as he should have to Bob and I. It was a bit of a bumpy dive, but generally ok. Trudging back to the car, D expressed his displeasure about his unfamiliarity and discomfort with some of the rental gear he was using. Namely the loose weight belt and the gloves that limited his dexterity.

During this next surface interval, it was Bob’s turn to pack up and bid farewell. D thanked him for his patience and instruction, and we are both looking forward to his AOW in April.

After an hour or so, we geared up for our third and final dive of the day. This is where the day got progressively weirder, where we both spaced out on aspects of our basic scuba training, where we scared the shit out of each other, and ultimately both learned valuable lessons.

Ever since I started diving in the PNW, I’ve really wanted to see an octopus. Big or little, I just craved an encounter. So for our third and final dive, I suggested we head to the south and find the bottle field where we could search out the small red octos that often hide there.

Basic scuba brainfart #1: Do your deepest dive first, not last. I just wasn’t thinking straight when I suggested this.

As we entered the water, I stressed to D that his job on this dive was to pay attention and always stay close to me, as well as concentrate on his buoyancy. We surface swam out and dropped at the end of the pier, just as Pez and I had done on our first dive. We followed the ropes straight down to the small wrecks, tire piles, and statues at about 80'. Then we headed south, zigzagging the slope until we found the bottles. We slowly worked our way along, inspecting the bottles and jars as we went. D looked a lot more comfortable with his gear and was dealing nicely with his errant weightbelt.

After 10 minutes or so, I finally saw my octo. A little tiny head was poking out of a bottle neck. As I got closer, it ducked inside. I motioned D over and gestured for him to look into the bottle, while I shined my light at the bottom of the bottle, illuminating the interior. As we watched, a little tentacle appeared from the bottle neck, and the little guy emerged and plopped out onto the sand. We hovered near it for a few minutes, watching it watch us while we snapped a few pics.

After about 5 minutes of octo watching, a gauge check revealed it was time to head back. My intent was to head back upslope to about 40’, then follow the rocky slope north to the pier and entry point. We started to follow this plan, then things went sideways.

A lot of what followed wasn’t clear to me at the time, but was explained after we exited the water.

As we began our way upslope, I was dawdling a bit looking for another octo. For some still unknown reason, D’s PSI dropped from about 1500 to 1000 pretty quickly. He signaled me that his pressure was low and that we needed to get going. I gave up my octo search and we continued upslope toward shallower water. 2-3 minutes later, he taps his gauge and motions me in “let’s hurry up toward the shore” kind of way. I didn’t understand the rush at the time, but it turns out that his pressure was dropping rapidly, almost down to 500 at that point. In hindsight, there was no obvious reason apparent, such as a freeflowing reg or other leak source.

Basic scuba brainfart #2: Your buddy is your alternate air source.

Basic scuba brainfart #3: A safe but direct ascent to the surface is best when running low on air.

D panicked when saw that his air was running low quickly. He charged quickly along up the slope towards shallower water and the shore, without looking back, staying 15’ or so ahead of me. I followed along trying to signal him and get his attention. My intent was to pass him my octo, calm him down, and begin a safe ascent directly to the surface. No luck.

Through the murk, I saw that we were coming up to the steel cables that hold the buoys in place just off of the boat ramp. From my last trip to Redondo, I knew that there was a web of old fishing line around those cables, and D was heading right into it. I was pulling out my knife as he hit the web, but thankfully he somehow managed to get through, breaking a few lines, and not getting ensnared.

He continued his mad dash up the slope, still without making eye contact with me. At about 25-30’, be began a direct ascent to the surface. I watched as he fumbled with his BC’s release valve, trying to control his ascent, which was a bit fast, but not quite cork-like. Afterwards he told me that he thought that somehow the BC malfunctioned and wouldn’t dump its air. I think him being flustered and his lack of dexterity with his gloves was a large part of the problem, since we couldn’t replicate the malfunction afterwards.

I made my ascent slowly and came up next to him. Wide-eyed he told me that he had completely run out of air, and showed me his gauge that read 0. He was freaked out, but otherwise ok. We held onto a piling until he calmed down, and then made the 50 yard surface swim to the boat ramp.

Back at the car, I pointed out what we should have done: shared air and made a safe ascent. He recognized immediately that he acted inappropriately and wasn’t thinking clearly at the time. We inspected his gear, putting it on my tank and checking for leaks, BC blockages or gauge malfunctions. We found nothing amiss.

We packed up our gear, and began our drive home to Portland, discussing what happened, what should have happened, and what we were going to do and practice more to prevent it from happening again.

But the weirdness wasn’t over yet.

Basic scuba brainfart #4: Learn the symptoms of DCI, and what to do if you are bent.

I’m going to spoil this story right now and say that no DCI hit was taken by either of us. But I sure managed to scare the hell out of both of us on the way home.

Two things were fuel to the fire in my thoughts as we started our drive home. The first is that I just finished reading Shadow Divers, and the second is that I had been researching DAN diving insurance, and exploring the coverages offered by both DAN and my health care provider.

As we drove home, in the back of my mind I was a little worried that our ascent was too fast, and that coupled with the exertion and the depth of our last dive, either of us might be at risk for a hit of DCI.

About an hour into our drive, we stopped for gas. I bought a bag of chips and some Gatorade to stave off my hunger until we got back to Portland.

No more than 10 minutes after eating the chips and downing most of the Gatorade, I began to feel a bit queasy. My vision started to blur and my paranoia kicked into overdrive, thinking my DCI fear was coming true. I managed to tell D that I wasn’t feeling well. My vision narrowed, I broke out into a cold sweat and nearly lapsed into unconsciousness. D repeatedly asked me how I was doing, but it wasn’t until he actually grabbed my shirt and shook me a bit was I able to answer.

I started to come to, and began explaining my fear that it might be DCI. I also said that we needed more info on what to do just in case. We decided to call Bob and ask his opinion. D told him the situation, and Bob explained that it didn’t sound like DCI, but that we should call DAN to confirm. After a bit of bungling and a second call to Bob, we got the number correct and got through to DAN. Again D explained the situation, they confirmed that my symptoms were not DCI, and also further described what to look for in case one should develop.

By the end of that call, I was feeling much better; very tired, but no longer queasy, sweaty or feeling like I was going to faint.

Well, if it wasn’t DCI, then what was it? Poisoned Fritos? Gatorade that had passed its shelf-life? That cranberry flaxseed muffin I ate that morning?

We’re still not 100% sure, but the general theory is this:

I had a hard week, not sleeping well a few nights. There’s also a flu bug that’s been passed around the office that might have gotten into me. I also hadn’t eaten much all day. The adrenaline that started pumping during D’s earlier escapade was also draining my reserves. So all in all, it seemed like my body telling me I was completely exhausted.

Boy, am I glad that D was driving and not me.

We got back to Portland and went straight for a dinner of Vietnamese pho, after which I felt much better, but still really worn out.

D dropped me off. I rinsed of my gear, then immediately went online and bought my DAN coverage. Today, I’m taking a sick day from work, resting, and learning more about DCI and how to recognize and handle a situation if it should arise.

D and I also have made a promise to each other that from now on, each time we dive together, we will review safety procedures and hand signals, and practice those skills as well.

So at the end of the day, many lessons were learned and we are both wiser for it. Nobody was seriously hurt, and we are both thankful for that.

And I got to see my first octo.


Image
Last edited by spatman on Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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scottsax
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Post by scottsax »

Wow! Thanks so much, Spatman, for posting. Bad days can range from disappointing to scary, and it sounds like yours fits right in the middle of that range. Glad you're all OK, and I'm glad you shared your story with us.

Rest up, and get back in the water soon!
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Nwbrewer
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Post by Nwbrewer »

Wow Spat, glad you guys are both ok.

I wonder if the expanding suit gas on his ascent was making your buddy thing that his BC was malfunctioning?

I've noticed that with some divers they will start to use thier gas much faster when it starts to get a bit low, especially if they are deeper than they are comfortable with at a certain gas level. This is something that improves over time.

Anytime I see a buddy constantly checking thier spg, I know it's time to start back. Practicing airshares can help with anxiety levels too. You guys will get a lot of practice with that in Bob's AOW class I'm sure.

Jake
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Post by Zen Diver »

Glad everything turned out well in the end. By all means read up on DCI, consider taking some DAN classes (ok, shameless plug here) and consider a Rescue class if you haven't already.

Thanks for sharing your experiences here.

-Valerie
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Joshua Smith
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Post by Joshua Smith »

Glad you guys are OK. I think most of us have had dives like that. #-o

Sounds as if you learned a few things- I'm curious about D's sudden drop in gas pressure- was the tank actually empty when you got up?
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Post by Sounder »

I'll most likely be helping with your AOW in April. You'll have lots of chances to practice your emergency drills.

In the meantime, I would highly recommend finding someone to practice drills with. What you get in OW isn't nearly enough.

Glad you're alright; thanks for sharing.
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Tom Nic
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Post by Tom Nic »

Hey Matt... thanks for sharing. :prayer:

Sharing those "poop hitting the ventilator" dives are a great service to others in the community... great reminders for all of us. And most, if not all of us, have had our own dives of one kind or another that weren't our most shining moments! :toimonster:

The debrief and "processing" of the events are hugely valuable. The negative part is folks who have those kind of dives and ego or other factors prevents them from talking about it... thus lessons not learned.

You probably have already gone there, but coming up with a list of specifics with your dive buddy about things to do / not do on your subsequent dives would be very beneficial. That, and those air sharing drills! \:D/

Glad you guys are OK...
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spatman
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Post by spatman »

thanks, everyone, for the well wishes.
Nwbrewer wrote:I wonder if the expanding suit gas on his ascent was making your buddy thing that his BC was malfunctioning?
i had wondered the same thing, that perhaps his suit wasn't venting fast enough. he did have air in his BC when we were at the surface, though, with having adding any.
Nailer99 wrote:I'm curious about D's sudden drop in gas pressure- was the tank actually empty when you got up?
his gauge really was at zilch at the surface. when we put his rig on my tank, his gauge showed the same pressure mine had, about 1200. but you're right, we should have put my gauge on his tank to check, which we didn't think to do at the time.
Sounder wrote:I'll most likely be helping with your AOW in April. You'll have lots of chances to practice your emergency drills.

In the meantime, I would highly recommend finding someone to practice drills with. What you get in OW isn't nearly enough.
bob mentioned you'd be assisting him for our class. i'm looking forward to that.

we will definitely be practicing those drills. not to say that i don't need the practice, but i dive a lot more often than D does and these basic emergency procedures and buddy skills are in the forefront of my mind moreso than his. the habit formed of practice is essential, no doubt, but i think he needs to work on the mindset as well.
Tom Nic wrote:The debrief and "processing" of the events are hugely valuable. The negative part is folks who have those kind of dives and ego or other factors prevents them from talking about it... thus lessons not learned.

You probably have already gone there, but coming up with a list of specifics with your dive buddy about things to do / not do on your subsequent dives would be very beneficial. That, and those air sharing drills!
very true, tom. the debrief is valuable to me as a way of sorting out what happened and how to prevent it next time. i hope others can learn something from it as well. i know i have gained a ton of knowledge from reading posts about both good and bad experiences.

we will definitely be putting that list together. D is a bit low on funds, so it's hard for him to rent a drysuit often. but if i have to, i'll figure out a way to pay for another dive or two for us to keep practicing those drills.
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Post by Nwbrewer »

In a month or so he can dive wet without too much discomfort. A crab cooker goes a long way at a divesite towards keeping you warm on SI when diving wet.

Keep practicing those skills and thanks again for posting about your experiences.

Jake
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Post by Sounder »

Training on emergency drills is a great thing to do. The more you do it, the more you're "expecting" someone to "throw" something at you. Then, when they do, your thought process goes something like... "aargh, OOA again (thinking it's a drill)?! Here's my octopus. Can we go on with the dive now?"

Then, when it actually happens (similar to when it happened to 2 different sets of experienced divers here on the board last year), you get the OOA signal, donate the reg, and only after checking what the problem was do you actually realize that it was the real "this is not a test" deal... and by then, you've already got them on your back-gas, and you're headed out. No panic, no problem.

Both of the situations I'm talking about were handled perfectly. One was a blown spg o-ring on the high pressure hose and the other was a regulator free-flow at depth. Not the fault of either "victim," and their buddies handled the OOG problem flawlessly.

Practice practice practice until AOW... then you'll get even more practice in AOW. Then you'll continue practicing after AOW (are you seeing a pattern here?).
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Post by Joshua Smith »

Yeah- the only way to get better at diving is to dive a lot- outside of training and reading, that is. Whenever I have a bad experience diving, I try and learn from it- Diverdown told me a few years back that he tries to learn something on every dive, good or bad. That's a great goal.

I'm still curious about D's tank pressure dropping so rapidly- maybe he just got caught in the trap of looking at his guage, realizing he was getting low, breathing more rapidly because he was stressed about getting low, looking at his guages, etc- I've done that. It's kind of like a negative feedback loop. But I also wonder if he was having equipment issues of some kind- or maybe he was wasting a lot of gas on drysuit inflation?
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Post by Penopolypants »

Sometimes your brain can do some funny things to you. This is the best possible outcome, though...mistakes were made, lessons were learned, nobody was hurt.

I agree that the debriefing afterwards is very important. It's hard sometimes for people to admit mistakes, but that is crucial to learning in any situation, but especially diving.

Let's practice some skills the next time you come up.
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Post by submarine »

Very good lessons for us all!

I had a very similar situation arise with a friend of mine. He was a new diver (less than 20 dives) and requested that I take him on a deeper dive. He had the very same reaction, to swim away from me and head for the surface. Luckily, I was able to grab hold of his fin and pull him back to me. I handed him my octopus and we made a safe accent breathing off my bottle. At the surface we had a long talk about sticking close, especially when a problem is identified.

I am now diving with my wife, who is a new diver. Although it makes me a bit nervous for her safety, it does refresh ones thoughts on safety.

Glad to hear everything turned out well!
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Post by spatman »

Sounder wrote:Practice practice practice until AOW... then you'll get even more practice in AOW. Then you'll continue practicing after AOW (are you seeing a pattern here?).
absolutely. and i look forward to the time when it is second nature to both of us.
Nailer99 wrote:Yeah- the only way to get better at diving is to dive a lot- outside of training and reading, that is. Whenever I have a bad experience diving, I try and learn from it- Diverdown told me a few years back that he tries to learn something on every dive, good or bad. That's a great goal.

I'm still curious about D's tank pressure dropping so rapidly- maybe he just got caught in the trap of looking at his guage, realizing he was getting low, breathing more rapidly because he was stressed about getting low, looking at his guages, etc- I've done that. It's kind of like a negative feedback loop. But I also wonder if he was having equipment issues of some kind- or maybe he was wasting a lot of gas on drysuit inflation?
i seem to learn each time i go as well, whether i'm actively trying to discover something or not.

it is entirely possible that rapid breathing contributed to his drop in pressure. i don't think he added too much to his suit, but i can't be 100% sure. my thought is that if anything, maybe his BC inflator got suck in some way? a slow steady inflate not only dropped his tank but also made it seem as if no air vented?

he's bringing the rental back today, so maybe they'll have something to report when the inspect the gear. but i have a feeling that in the end, we may never really know what went wrong.
Penopolypants wrote:Let's practice some skills the next time you come up.
maybe the morning of the 23rd? if you not too busy jet-setting to with your snowboard pals, ms fancy-pants.
:bootyshake:
submarine wrote:I had a very similar situation arise with a friend of mine. He was a new diver (less than 20 dives) and requested that I take him on a deeper dive. He had the very same reaction, to swim away from me and head for the surface. Luckily, I was able to grab hold of his fin and pull him back to me. I handed him my octopus and we made a safe accent breathing off my bottle. At the surface we had a long talk about sticking close, especially when a problem is identified.
!
if i could have grabbed him i would have. but he was gone like a shot and wasn't slowing down for nothing...
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Post by Grateful Diver »

Matt ... first off let me say that I'm really glad you and Dennis didn't get hurt yesterday. I didn't get the whole story from D on the phone last night, but now that I've read your account, I've got a few comments (nothing too severe, so hope the two of you don't mind me posting this here).

First off, taking D down to 80 feet on his first day in a drysuit wasn't a wise choice. There's a reason I kept our dives shallow ... learning how to manage a drysuit going down is easy, but managing it coming up, when the air is expanding, takes a little bit more practice. I should've probably thought to mention to you guys to keep your third dive shallow for that reason.

Based on your description of the dive, here's what I think ...

At 80 feet ... my guess is that narcosis happened. In dark, low-vis conditions like we had yesterday it tends to happen quicker than normal. D was already task-loaded with the suit, and that was causing him to go through his air quicker than he normally would. Add a bit of narcosis to that and you've just hit the switch on the vacuum cleaner. Suddenly he notices he's getting a little low ... and you weren't moving fast enough for him. Anxiety sets in, the breathing rate goes up accordingly, and that little devil on his shoulder starts screaming in his ear "Get me the HELL OUTTA HERE". Without thinking about the fact that he's swimming away from his redundant air source, he listens to the devil and takes off.

On the way upslope, he's got three things to deal with ... a BCD he's not familiar with, a drysuit he's just starting to learn how to manage, and a breathing rate that's in high gear. That's an awful lot to manage under the circumstances. Basically, at that point the chain of events that leads to an accident is getting pretty far along.

Sounds like you guys dodged a bullet ... and no one's happier about that than me (well, except maybe you guys anyway).

Couple of suggestions ...

- You've probably already just about hashed this one out between you. Don't be too hard on yourselves ... we all make mistakes. Learn from them and try not to repeat them. That's a net positive.

- Before April, get in some more dives under shallower, less challenging conditions. If you can make it back up before I head off to Indonesia, I'll be happy to take you out. If not, maybe Sounder or one of the other folks here will. But try to dive some more before the class.

- Practice OOA drills. You two are going to be diving together fairly regularly, so it really pays to work on this together.

Other than that, don't worry too much about it. We're going to work on some things during the AOW class that'll help keep you from getting yourself in that sort of a situation again. You've just given yourself a leg up on the class, because you now have first hand experience with some of the things we're going to be covering ... that'll work out to your benefit in the long run.

Was planning to call later this evening and see how you were doing. Glad to know you're OK ... I figured it was just a case of fatigue, anxiety and bad food ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

PS - congrats on the octopus sighting ... that's a neat picture ... =D>
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Post by Penopolypants »

spatman wrote:
Penopolypants wrote:Let's practice some skills the next time you come up.
maybe the morning of the 23rd? if you not too busy jet-setting to with your snowboard pals, ms fancy-pants.
:bootyshake:
Haha, yeah, I took up snowboarding because I clearly need another expensive hobby. Another hobby that is clearly trying to kill me. :)
spatman wrote:if i could have grabbed him i would have. but he was gone like a shot and wasn't slowing down for nothing...
Not sure that grabbing him would have been a good idea, he might have dragged you with him.

Anywhoo, yes to practicing on the 23rd. I think that Bob's class, plus Rescue when you're ready, will be a big confidence as well as a skill booster.
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Post by LCF »

Dry suits sure add to the task loading, and task loading adds to the gas consumption. (Or as my husband says about his photography, "The camera needs its own tank.") And it's hard to control the anxiety when the gas is getting low, too.

Sounds like D had a long day of diving with a lot of stress in it, and being tired may have factored into this, too. None of us processes as well when we're tired as we do when we're fresh.

Anyway, if you guys want to come back up here for some more practice diving, and Bob's in Indonesia, I'd be happy to do some dives with you if I'm around. Edmonds is a great place to play with a dry suit, because you can't get too nitrogen loaded there, and you have to manage your buoyancy in that "0 to 30 feet" bubble, where it's most difficult. And there's lots to see.

Glad to hear everybody came out of this event okay. I've got my share of screwed up dives where you're just glad nobody got hurt, and you learned what not to do next time. You guys aren't alone in that!
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Post by spatman »

Grateful Diver wrote:Matt ... first off let me say that I'm really glad you and Dennis didn't get hurt yesterday. I didn't get the whole story from D on the phone last night, but now that I've read your account, I've got a few comments (nothing too severe, so hope the two of you don't mind me posting this here).

First off, taking D down to 80 feet on his first day in a drysuit wasn't a wise choice. There's a reason I kept our dives shallow ... learning how to manage a drysuit going down is easy, but managing it coming up, when the air is expanding, takes a little bit more practice. I should've probably thought to mention to you guys to keep your third dive shallow for that reason.
you are absolutely correct, it was a stupid decision. i had asked him how he felt about it, he said fine, so i had assumed that the gradual ascent upslope would allow him to vent the expanding suit air easily. it was a terrible oversight for me not to take into account the possibility of just such a scenario.
Grateful Diver wrote:At 80 feet ... my guess is that narcosis happened. In dark, low-vis conditions like we had yesterday it tends to happen quicker than normal. D was already task-loaded with the suit, and that was causing him to go through his air quicker than he normally would. Add a bit of narcosis to that and you've just hit the switch on the vacuum cleaner. Suddenly he notices he's getting a little low ... and you weren't moving fast enough for him. Anxiety sets in, the breathing rate goes up accordingly, and that little devil on his shoulder starts screaming in his ear "Get me the HELL OUTTA HERE". Without thinking about the fact that he's swimming away from his redundant air source, he listens to the devil and takes off.

On the way upslope, he's got three things to deal with ... a BCD he's not familiar with, a drysuit he's just starting to learn how to manage, and a breathing rate that's in high gear. That's an awful lot to manage under the circumstances. Basically, at that point the chain of events that leads to an accident is getting pretty far along.
from what i read, narcosis is usually discernible by erratic, almost drunken behavior, which i honestly didn't notice in D. i also don't think D would know what being narced is like. what else should i look for in both another diver, and in myself for signs or narcosis?
Grateful Diver wrote:Sounds like you guys dodged a bullet ... and no one's happier about that than me (well, except maybe you guys anyway).
+ my wife and D's girlfriend...
Grateful Diver wrote:- Before April, get in some more dives under shallower, less challenging conditions. If you can make it back up before I head off to Indonesia, I'll be happy to take you out. If not, maybe Sounder or one of the other folks here will. But try to dive some more before the class.

- Practice OOA drills. You two are going to be diving together fairly regularly, so it really pays to work on this together.
i plan on diving at least twice a month as i have been. i'm hoping D can commit to some or most of those trips, but his financial situation will limit just how many times he can afford to rent gear.

i definitely want to and plan to practice those drills often. Penopolypants has already offered to work with me when i come up on the 23rd.
Grateful Diver wrote: Glad to know you're OK ... I figured it was just a case of fatigue, anxiety and bad food ...
yeah, no more post-dive Fritos for me. i'm actually pretty good about eating well, and don't normally eat that junk, but i was really hungry and we were in the middle of nowhere off of I-5...

thanks again, bob, for all of your help and advice.
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Post by gcbryan »

Another thing that comes to mind while reading this is that when diving with a newer diver/new equipment etc. when you first see that someone is using a lot of air for whatever reason it's time to get shallow right away.

When I was new I went on a deeper dive with an experienced buddy but one that was new to me. I showed him that my air was getting low but we still stayed fairly deep. Later, I indicated that we should go upslope and we did but at a very slow rate and my air got pretty low.

When we were on shore he indicated that he was surprised that my air was going so fast even though he knew I was a newer diver and even though I showed him my gauge.

When you are with a newer diver get shallow as soon you they seem uncomfortable for whatever reason. Better yet, don't get deep in the first place with new equipment or new to you dive buddies.
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airsix
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Post by airsix »

Along with depth and stress there's also warmth. Based on the rental undies I've seen I know I'd be cold by the third dive in them. The colder I get the faster I Hoover. I would expect consumption to increase as the dive progressed and the chill set in (along with the depth and stress factors).

-Ben
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Post by spatman »

LCF wrote:Dry suits sure add to the task loading, and task loading adds to the gas consumption. (Or as my husband says about his photography, "The camera needs its own tank.") And it's hard to control the anxiety when the gas is getting low, too.

Sounds like D had a long day of diving with a lot of stress in it, and being tired may have factored into this, too. None of us processes as well when we're tired as we do when we're fresh.

Anyway, if you guys want to come back up here for some more practice diving, and Bob's in Indonesia, I'd be happy to do some dives with you if I'm around. Edmonds is a great place to play with a dry suit, because you can't get too nitrogen loaded there, and you have to manage your buoyancy in that "0 to 30 feet" bubble, where it's most difficult. And there's lots to see.

Glad to hear everybody came out of this event okay. I've got my share of screwed up dives where you're just glad nobody got hurt, and you learned what not to do next time. You guys aren't alone in that!
yep, that's another thing i didn't factor in for sure, was the task loading. i honestly didn't stop to think that that it would affect his consumption.

as i mentioned earlier, i'm hoping to come up every couple of weeks, and bring D when possible. edmonds is a bit far for a day trip from Portland, but i might be coming up and crashing with a friend in Seattle sometime in the next few months. i'll let you know when that happens. if there's a site a further south that's convenient for you, i'd be happy to get in more practice with you.
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Post by spatman »

gcbryan wrote:Another thing that comes to mind while reading this is that when diving with a newer diver/new equipment etc. when you first see that someone is using a lot of air for whatever reason it's time to get shallow right away.
what was weird about this situation, is that his consumption was normal for the first 25 minutes of the dive. once we hit the turnaround point was when his pressure dropped incredibly fast. we did head for shallow water with about 1500 psi in his tank. 5 minutes later, he was down to almost nil.
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Post by spatman »

i took a closer look at the dive profile from my computer, screencap below.

that bump at about 15-16 minutes was where we zigged a little looking for the bottles.

at about 24 minutes or so was where we began our move upslope to shallower water. this was where, according to D he had ~1500 psi.

three minutes later, at about 27 minutes, what about where D gave me the "hurry up" signal. his gauge at that point was at around 1000.

i think it was around the 30 minute mark that he said his gauge read less than 500. this was the point at which our ascent rapidly increased. my estimate of the last vertical ascent was off and it looks closer to 40 feet, not 25 or so.

D hit the surface about 20 seconds before me, with tank pressure of 0.

diveprofile.jpg
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Tom Nic
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Post by Tom Nic »

spatman wrote:
Grateful Diver wrote:At 80 feet ... my guess is that narcosis happened. In dark, low-vis conditions like we had yesterday it tends to happen quicker than normal. D was already task-loaded with the suit, and that was causing him to go through his air quicker than he normally would. Add a bit of narcosis to that and you've just hit the switch on the vacuum cleaner. Suddenly he notices he's getting a little low ... and you weren't moving fast enough for him. Anxiety sets in, the breathing rate goes up accordingly, and that little devil on his shoulder starts screaming in his ear "Get me the HELL OUTTA HERE". Without thinking about the fact that he's swimming away from his redundant air source, he listens to the devil and takes off.
from what i read, narcosis is usually discernible by erratic, almost drunken behavior, which i honestly didn't notice in D. i also don't think D would know what being narced is like. what else should i look for in both another diver, and in myself for signs or narcosis?
I Love this site! :prayer: What a great thread! Good job everyone! =D>

It is a common fallacy that narcosis=drunk. That happens with some folks, but usually deeper, and symptoms vary somewhat between divers. Sounder starts looking at his gauges every 10 seconds. I get VERY relaxed and everything starts happening in slow motion. Other's get very nervous and paranoid. And a few get "sloppy happy". I suppose in that way it's similar to alchohol... you have a sloppy drunk, a paranoid drunk, a mean drunk, some who hold their booze better than others, etc. etc. etc.

And most people are narced at around 80fsw, though they may not notice it very much. The deeper you go, the more pronounced the effects get. You no doubt remember the very dramatic descriptions in Shadow Divers of the effects of narcosis when diving on air at 200fsw. In addition cold and low viz are thought to make the effects more pronounced. Like anything else you can "get used" to it, particularly at shallower depths, but the effects are still there.

So... a newer diver or a warm water diver coming into cold water could be expected to experience the effects of narcosis in a more pronounced way, whether they recognized it or not.

Great conversation!
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Post by airsix »

Talking about how stress affects air consumption...

Here is a real world example. This is out of my personal log book:
1) Ave. depth 32ft, max depth 58ft, bottom time 42 minutes.
2) Ave. depth 57ft, max depth 102ft, bottom time 44 minutes.

I actually finished dive #2 with 11 cubic feet more gas than dive #1. Both were done roughly 24 hours apart at the same location with the same conditions and equipment. The big difference was who I was in the water with. I was so worried about being perfect for dive #1's buddies that I was stressed out. On dive #2 I was diving with the king of mellow... and I mellowed.

-Ben

ps - Just in case dive #1 buddies recognize those numbers, know that I don't stress out diving with you any more, and in fact very much enjoy diving with you.
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