LDS Customer Service

[Tangfish]

Yesterday I took a few divers out for a fun dive at Redondo, including my good friend epuffy. All three of them needed rental gear, so when they asked me where to go I suggested a few options near to where they live/work. One of those options was Underwater Sports. I later regretted it.

We were in the parking lot and everyone was getting their gear assembled when epuffy asked me for help getting his BCD set up. I came over and took a look, then realized that the ScubaPro BCD Underwater Sports rented to him did not have one side of the tank strap buckle. We all were totally bummed and started trying to think of ways to rig the BCD up, but nothing safe came to mind.

I saw a big TLSea tent across the way, and decided to go over to see if they happened to have a half a tank strap buckle (long shot). They didn't, but instead just loaned us a BCD of their own and it was the perfect size for epuffy. We were very grateful and they saved our dive. Thank you, TLSea!

After our dive, I told epuffy that he should not have to pay for the BCD rental, since it was bone dry and wasn't a diveable piece of gear. Furthermore, they should probably apologize since they almost ruined 4 divers' afternoon by sending out a piece of rental gear without a very obvious, critical component (sort of like renting you a car with no steering wheel). Later, epuffy called me and let me know that not only were they rude to him, incredulous that he would even ask for a refund, they refused to refund him and instead grudgingly gave him a credit for another BCD rental.



Can you believe that? If he's renting another BCD from them, he'll presumably be needing the rest of the kit, so instead of saying "sorry, our bad" and possibly finding a way to make it right and to keep him as a happy customer, they slap him in the face and then try to get more business out of him.

This is just lame. I used to send all my dollars to Underwater Sports, even in times that I heard bad stories about how they treat customers. This is back when the Bellevue shop used to be staffed full of dive buddies and friends, and by extension, the Seattle shop (where this happened) was pretty friendly. I've been hearing bad stories about customer service at UWS more and more frequently, and I always just shake my head and wish it were another way. This time though it happened to my friend and almost scrubbed a day of diving for us. Mistakes happen, I get that. But, when they do and the dive shop is at fault, a simple "sorry" is sometimes all it takes to keep a customer - and someone who refers business their way.

So, while I lost one shop as a place I can send friends, I gained another. Thanks again, TLSea.

[Tom Nic]

Hmmm.... crazy. And REALLY counterintuitive. It's not rocket science to figure that if you rented a customer something that didn't work you should REFUND their money.

I've never had these problems at the Lakewood UWS - if something is wrong they've always gone out of their way to fix it and / or make it right.

If I was the activist type person I'd get on the phone, call their manager, demand an explanation and satisfaction. I can see an underling doing something because they're clueless (although I still find this very hard to beleive), but I can't see someone in management have such a BLATANT DISREGARD for the most basic in customer service.

...unless there is really something more to the story than what I'm hearing.

[Tangfish]

...unless there is really something more to the story than what I'm hearing.

Nope, that was pretty much it. The same employee (I believe) was the one who rented the gear to epuffy. You'd think that the guy would take some ownership over something that was not only a mistake on the part of the dive shop, but his mistake.

I agree though, Tom, some locations have their own culture and are still very friendly towards customers (Federal Way location comes to mind). I've seen others take on the attitude from the flagship store's employees and heard a few bad stories from dive buddies who used to go to the Seattle shop regularly, only to switch to driving a half hour somewhere else because of a changing of the guard and new employees who acted arrogantly for no apparent reason.

[Grateful Diver]

Whew!

I had to read that a couple times to realize you weren't talking about the Federal Way UWS ... that would've surprised me greatly. But I have noticed over the years that shop culture varies from UWS to UWS, and some provide better customer service than others.

It sure doesn't sound good, and I'd definitely recommend talking the store manager. There is another UWS that I stopped frequenting because the shop culture got just a bit too (in my opinion) arrogant for me to want to put up with. Been a long time since I've been to the Seattle store, but back in the day I always had good experiences there. I'd like to think this is really just a case of a couple of poorly trained employees who are making the whole staff look bad ... in which case, management really should hear about it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Tom Nic]

It sure doesn't sound good, and I'd definitely recommend talking the store manager.

A big second on this - If a manager is worth their salt then they care about how employees treat the customers. If they don't, then the public will vote with their feet.

[FlyinV]

What I got out of this thread is TLSea seems like a really cool dive center.

Sometime when I am in the area (I live in Portland) I will have to stop by and check it out.

I don't think I will be checking out any UWS stores.... See what happens when when you don't treat a customer right.
Word travels far with both good and bad customer service stories and if a person is hassled over a rental... what happens if there was a serious expensive issue.

[Rockfish]

FYI the manager is Ken Dickman (his mood depends on the type of day he is having) and failing satisfaction with him talk to the owners Dan or Terry Keffler.

My experience with the Seattle store is that they are very arrogant and most not all UWS have an "attitude" when it comes to customer service.

Customer service seems like a lost art with a lot of businesses and you would think that in this economy any business would be bending over backwards to take care of any customer.

Also I am assuming that your buddy thoroughly inspected the rental gear before leaving the shop. UWS is notorious for not taking very good care of their rental equipment. If I was renting gear I would completely assemble it and test it before leaving the store to prevent situations like you and your buddies experienced especially since it is life support gear.

Just my $0.02

Mike

[TCWestby]

Poor CS at UWS Everett is exactly why I BOUGHT my gear at SPD though it looks like they have a new manager now so I don't know wat it's like now.

[Ken G]

I stopped going to UWS Seattle a long time ago. Customer service never seemed to matter much to them. I cant really speak about the others though.

[ArcticDiver]

Oh if this were limited to only one store, or only one industry!!!!

I've encountered this kind of attitude from several stores around the nation as I travel and dive. I just encountered it at a bike shop in Colorado. Several reasons for The Attitude, none of which make sense. But they exist anyway.

Kudos on bringing it to eveyone's attention. I've found that there is one way and only one way to solve this kind of problem. That is to vote with your dollar and let the owner know why you voted that way. Sometimes even that isn't enough and the business vanishes, as it should.

[Grateful Diver]

Sometimes even that isn't enough and the business vanishes, as it should.

I don't see that happening to UWS ... they are the 600-lb gorilla in scuba diving around here (with eight stores in the Greater Pugetropolitan area).

They probably make more money selling $200 split fins and $90 snorkels to OW students than all the other shops do in their combined gear sales.

Oh, they may lose a significant percentage of the more educated diving consumer, but that's not their target market anyway. They pump a ton of people through those $129 quickie OW classes every week ... and then load them up on gear before they learn enough to make educated purchasing decisions. Unfortunately, most of those people don't last very long in scuba diving before they decide to move on to some other recreational activity ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[blackwater]

[quote="FlyinV"]

(I live in Portland)

quote]


Check out Seven Sea's Scuba. Its in Vancouver but it is worth the drive from Portland. Great shop!

[dwashbur]

I always found Terry to be concerned about customer service and satisfaction, even to the point of sitting down with me in his office once to deal with a complaint I had and bending over backward to make it right, so I'd recommend talking to him about this incident. Unless he's developed a brain tumor or something that brought about a complete change in personality, he'll want to know about it and deal with it.

This is based solely on my own experience; YMMV.

[FlyinV]

Check out Seven Sea's Scuba. Its in Vancouver but it is worth the dirve from Portland. Great shop!

I agree! Thats the shop I use

[dsteding]

UWS is notorious for not taking very good care of their rental equipment.

That about says it all. Problem is, if they take that kind of care of a source of liability, what are they doing with their customer's gear . . . or training.

[Metal man]

UWS is notorious for not taking very good care of their rental equipment.

That about says it all. Problem is, if they take that kind of care of a source of liability, what are they doing with their customer's gear . . . or training.

Yup yup! That's the reason I never rented gear after I got certified. On both days of my OW class I had faulty BCs (cough UWS Everett cough), luckily there were people around that had ones I could use. New people are always told that they should rent a bunch of differnt gear before buying... just make sure you tell them to rent from some place that's going to make thier dive a pleasant one.

[Dive 4 God]

Now y'all know why I live TLSea!!! They are the best, most knowledgeable and friendliest dive center I know!!! (and no they aren't paying me for this! haha!) Trux and Lavonne Rock!!!

[nwscubamom]

I think we're pretty lucky down in the Portland /Vancouver area. I have had great relations with every single shop in the area...except two. (there are a total of about 7). One of those shops is no longer in business (was it called Young's scuba?) and another still continues to give THE ATTITUDE royally. No chain stores down here, but the one with THE ATTITUDE is the only one with an on-site pool in Portland. Everyone else are run by really great folks and I'd have no trouble recommending any of them.

- Janna

[LCF]

Every time I read a story like this, it makes me happier that Northwest Sports Divers is close to where I live.

I went in there the other day to ask Matt if he had a suggestion for stiff, plastic fins (non-negative) that I could use in the pool with classes, because my Jets are too negative for the gear I'm diving there. I walked out with his wife's fins to try. (They're perfect, BTW.) I've been their customer for three years, and haven't had a single bad or even marginal experience there.

[dsteding]

Every time I read a story like this, it makes me happier that Northwest Sports Divers is close to where I live.

Northwest Sports Divers isn't anywhere close to where I live, but I'm still damn happy to have the place.

[HydroGirl]

Yes, Northwest Sports Divers is the best

[Pinkpadigal]

I am going to play a little devils advocate here...so please don't shoot the messenger...

The only way your favorite LDS is going to improve on customer service is for customers to tell the manager/owner about his/her experiences...good and bad. I am sure that if Ken or Terry heard how Calvin's friend was treated by their staff, they both would be livid. My experience, as most of you have mentioned, is that service varies between each of the chain dive stores in our area. My guess is there is no set policy of how to handle different situations. The only way that will change is for customers to give feedback.

If you love your LDS...tell everyone and the manager why. If you have a bad experience, tell the manager and owner. You might be surprised how well you are taken care of going forward.

On rental gear...there is some crappy stuff out there and some of it is dangerous. Believe it or not; having crappy equipment is part of some LDS business plans. (crappy rental gear=more gear sales) If you are renting, make sure you check everything before leaving, including how much air is in your tank.

[dwashbur]

Not to brown-nose, but if you're in the south end you really can't get better service than you'll get at A2Z. And if you come in while we're there, you'll even find a puppy to play with!

[Tangfish]

Sometimes even that isn't enough and the business vanishes, as it should.

I don't see that happening to UWS ... they are the 600-lb gorilla in scuba diving around here (with eight stores in the Greater Pugetropolitan area).

They probably make more money selling $200 split fins and $90 snorkels to OW students than all the other shops do in their combined gear sales.

Oh, they may lose a significant percentage of the more educated diving consumer, but that's not their target market anyway. They pump a ton of people through those $129 quickie OW classes every week ... and then load them up on gear before they learn enough to make educated purchasing decisions. Unfortunately, most of those people don't last very long in scuba diving before they decide to move on to some other recreational activity ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

So much of what you say is very true and very sad.

I am going to play a little devils advocate here...so please don't shoot the messenger...

The only way your favorite LDS is going to improve on customer service is for customers to tell the manager/owner about his/her experiences...good and bad. I am sure that if Ken or Terry heard how Calvin's friend was treated by their staff, they both would be livid. My experience, as most of you have mentioned, is that service varies between each of the chain dive stores in our area. My guess is there is no set policy of how to handle different situations. The only way that will change is for customers to give feedback.

If you love your LDS...tell everyone and the manager why. If you have a bad experience, tell the manager and owner. You might be surprised how well you are taken care of going forward.

On rental gear...there is some crappy stuff out there and some of it is dangerous. Believe it or not; having crappy equipment is part of some LDS business plans. (crappy rental gear=more gear sales) If you are renting, make sure you check everything before leaving, including how much air is in your tank.

I actually did encourage my buddy to call and talk to a manager about it, but he was reluctant to. I guess the way he looks at it is he dives maybe once or twice a year. The incident was a crappy part of an otherwise fun afternoon and he didn't want to relive it any more times than he already did. He had already been in the shop twice that day. When renting it he said staff was rude to him. When he was returning all three people's gear, they were rude to him. He pretty much just wrote the shop off after that experience. Who wouldn't?

I realize that managers need to know when stuff like this happens, but how many times does it happen when the customer just sighs, shrugs and then decides not to say anything? You can't depend on your customers to provide you the research. Yes, it's nice when someone is vocal and lets you know about it. But, a good owner/manager is involved enough in their business to know whether or not their employees have friendly attitudes and are helpful, considerate and take ownership of their mistakes, y'know - sort of like YOU do at A2Z, Amy.

If this were an isolated incident, I would say that it's possible this one employee's behavior slipped through the cracks. But, judging by what I generally hear on the street and the multitude of accounts here on this thread, I don't think that's the case.

[Tom Nic]

Anybody have the manager's email and can forward them this link?

If I was a manager I'd want to see it.

If I was a manager and don't care because I've had it with whiny customers then I need to get out of the business and let someone else do it.

Or my bad business practices will drive me out of business.

[Sounder]

I've had two incidents at Seattle UWS that left me quite upset as well. I asked to speak to the manager both times, the first time he said "that's the way it is," and the second time he was "unavailable."

[TCWestby]

Personally my problem was from the manager which sucks because he should have known better, the good news was they got rid of him now I stop by from time to time, the general attitude has gotten better.

[dwashbur]

I actually did encourage my buddy to call and talk to a manager about it, but he was reluctant to.

I have never quite understood this mindset. But then, I'm a much bigger jerk than most people, so maybe that has something to do with it.

[mancub]

As a newer diver, I have had nothing but great service from UW Sports. Maybe because I bought gear there, maybe because I help DM in their pool and with an instructor through their shop. Either way, I am just sharing my experience. If you are a tech diver and want people to cater to your every little need and desire Sports is likely not best suited for that. Just wanted to throw my tiny insight and positive word on the table since everyone else that posted seems to be the elite members.

If you like another shop great, yes I think rental gear should be right the first time. Maybe involving a manager should have happened rather than running to the board to vent. But like I said I am new so my opinion probably doesn't matter to the veterans who have had a lot of seemingly negative experences.

You'll still find me at Sports.

[Sounder]

But like I said I am new so my opinion probably doesn't matter to the veterans who have had a lot of seemingly negative experences.

This was a great post until this line. New or not, your opinion matters and I'm glad you chimed in to share your experience. I don't think tech divers are any different from rec divers in the expectation of service though. It should be noted, the person wronged in this was a recreational diver, which is UWS's bread and butter.