RIP Wes Skiles

[LCF]

Hear, hear, lamont.

I'd love to have a legacy of beautiful images like Wes's. And if a discussion of my death averted an accident for someone who might simply not have thought through the issues otherwise, that's a great legacy, too.

[ljjames]

I think these discussions can help.

Honestly, I was on the fence re: BOV and FFM, i'd read both sides, talked to a lot of people, etc..

I dove with Chris a couple weeks back, and watched him strap on his halfmask and thought "yanno, thats not half bad, it's not adding that much bulk and ya, i like that idea... he's a smart cookie, and i respect that"

then i read about Wes, and yes, extrapolating and conjecture aside, i think "hmmm... I wonder..." I will say that Wes' untimely death and the many discussions surrounding it (forums, emails, pm's, etc..) combined with Andy's death and the almost complete lack of internet followup by comparison, have pushed me over the fence to the seek out a FFM or partial FM with retention strap and BOV that plums into offboard BO. SO will this event and ensuing discussion have a partial effect on saving my life someday? I hope to never have that tested out, but yanno, anything is possible and as i keep saying, why not stack the deck in my favor to the best of my knowledge and ability...

[Joshua Smith]

Wes was a big boy, and knew the risks associated with diving a ccr, and solo diving a ccr w/o bailout, and he made a decision he was comfortable with. It may have been complacency. It may have been over-confidence. He may have had a much higher risk acceptance factor than most. Would he do the same over again if he was given the chance? Who knows?

Regardless, he paid the ultimate price for it, which is always tragic, but he knew the risks.

I'm all for objective, even heated, accident analysis discussions....when facts are disclosed. If it were me, I'd want others to feel free to discuss it and learn from my accident, mistakes, etc. However, until the facts do emerge, it's all speculation, and the "what ifs?" and "what abouts?" almost always deteriorate and spiral into divisive and often contentious debates over non-factual details. And that is something I wouldn't want.

If Wes' death gives someone who's been a bit complacent a wake up call (and that's ALL of us. It doesn't have to be someone solo diving a ccr w/o bailout), great. Good came from it.

But part of this is mindset as well. If someone is comfortable with the risks of solo diving with no bailout on a ccr, I don't see Wes' death changing anything. They read the sticker on the machine and made the choice. To them, Wes' death was unfortunate, but was part of the risks.

Regardless of whether a ccr is in my future or not, I can guarantee you that solo diving with no bailout is not. Because of this, I'm in no rush to draw my own conclusions or speculate, because it won't change anything for me or my diving. Instead, I'll wait patiently for the facts, enjoying the wonderful gifts he's given us in his work.

Great post. I've gotten to the point that I just don't read threads about solo diving any more. They're like watching a goat try to convince a duck to grow horns, but the duck is pretty sure that the goat oughta grow feathers. Kind of amusing, at first, but nobody is going to change their mind about anything.

The only thing I find shocking is the report that Mr. Skiles had no OC bailout. If it's true, I don't really know what to say.

I used to solo on OC from time to time, but I don't do it on CCR, for the most part. I have done a couple of partial dives by myself- like thumbing a dive, but signalling to my buddies that I was fine to do the ascent solo. I don't necessarilly recommend that anyone else do that, but I was comfortable with it. I may try some easy, shallow, solo dives in the near future just to test some gear- but I will be taking plenty of OC gas with me. We'll see, I haven't made up my mind about that- it's just an idea I've been toying with.

[ljjames]

if you just wanna drive the ferrari to the corner store to test some new rims on it, let me know, i'm happy to join ya if schedules work... I've got some new stuff i need to play with as well that i don't want the 'first dive' to be anything more than a walk in the park

[Zen Diver]

Just something to consider: diving is a numbers game. Professional diving at Wes Skiles's level is a bigger numbers game. The more you engage in a risk taking activity (any kind of diving) the more you increase your risk of of injury or death.Like most diving deaths we'll probably never know for sure what happened. We can, however, enjoy his work and legacy he left behind.

Everyone can take whatever "lesson" they choose from the event.

Just sayin'

Valerie

[Dashrynn]

I wanted to comment on wes skiles, his pictures have always inspired me to plunge into the deep end. I never paid to much attention to the name but after looking back i recognize alot of his photos. I will miss the guy, he is what gives the children dreams to grow up and explore where no man has gone before.

[Gill Envy]

Wes's work is stunning and he will be missed!

-on the "don't speculate" debate, I can say this: each fatality is an alarm bell that should be allowed to ring, loud and clear, such that the person has not died in vein. We would be remiss to not discuss possible causes and promote better practices with each tidbit that comes out about a case. From what I have seen in the 5 years that I've been involved in the rebreather world, we will all have very little to talk about if we restrict our discussions about fatalities to what is known, because sadly, little is ever released about the vast majority of fatalities. Remarkably, "waiting to discuss a case till more is known" rarely leads to meaningful discussion. In fact, I would turn this whole thing on its head and say that not speculating is irresponsible for us CCR divers, the stakes are just too high, with far too many of us dying on a regular basis. Let us speculate, soul search and question, but let us do so in that context, knowing that we will probably never be able to conclude the cause in the majority of rebreather deaths and doing so respectfully of the deceased, knowing that speculating is an exercise in accident prevention mainly and is not meant to reflect personally on those we have lost.

I think there are some things that can be said without being disrespectful of Wes, or overly speculative, things that could be helpful to my diving techniques now, even if it turns out later that they are not relevant to this particular case:

-the diver was amongst the most experienced in technical diving and perished on a remarkably mundane dive.

my take home: an amazing number of very experienced eCCR divers have perished doing "easy" dives. recognizing that confidence and experience may actually increase the risk that a mistake or gear malfunction will go unnoticed, I am reminding myself once again that my risk of fatal mistake likely increases with experience, particularly on "easy dives", and that I need to resist the temptation to let my guard down as I become more comfortable with the sport.

-Another CCR diver has perished.

my take home: This sport is inherently dangerous, no "and" "if'" or "butt" about it! I am no less likely to make a mistake than anyone else. regardless of my experience level, I am not special, I'm not lucky and I must continue to hone my skills, diving with a cross checking mentality, taking 110% responsibility for my well being, continuously alert to signs I have erred and signs of a malfunction of my computers and kit.

-This diver appears to have died on a solo portion of a dive.

my take home: regardless of actual cause in this case, solo diving rebreathers appears to be associated with a high risk of mortality. I take this very seriously and if I choose to dive solo any way, I do so understanding and accepting the risk and taking extra precautions to help mitigate those risks.

-the families of many divers do not make public the facts as they become known about fatal CCR accidents.

My take home: I have told my friends and family that to the extent possible, that any information should be released about any details if I am involved in a fatal accident. I am not worried about my diving philosophy or style being scrutinized if I have a fatal accident, I can only hope that some good could come of it.

Much of the above can be applied to diving Open Circuit to help each diver reduce risk, though I do think it's fair to say that OC divers seem to be having better success at diving within their respective limits.

Kind Regards,
George

[ljjames]

:smt038

[LCF]

EXCELLENT post, George!

I've said it before -- If I die diving, I want all information released, and I want it hashed and rehashed and if there is any learning that can be done from it, let it be done, and to h*&% with my reputation.

[smike]

... I think it's because people believe what they want to believe. ... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I hope that I can change what I want to believe. I know it will be safer for me. We can be our own worse enemy. Complacency will bite.

Please ask yourself, as I am:
How complacent am I?
If I find I have been at all complacent, what will I do to fix that?
Am I convinced that my complacency CAN kill me?
Have I visualized what wake of yuck I leave behind if I die?

I have some things to fix. I am convinced that I need checklists and reminders, and that a mental checklist is not enough for me.

Mike

[Grateful Diver]

... I think it's because people believe what they want to believe. ... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I hope that I can change what I want to believe. I know it will be safer for me. We can be our own worse enemy. Complacency will bite.

Please ask yourself, as I am:
How complacent am I?
If I find I have been at all complacent, what will I do to fix that?
Am I convinced that my complacency CAN kill me?
Have I visualized what wake of yuck I leave behind if I die?

I have some things to fix. I am convinced that I need checklists and reminders, and that a mental checklist is not enough for me.

Mike

Human nature, Mike ... sometimes people change what they believe ... but they only do because they WANT to. Those who are convinced they are right will find rationalizations, no matter how much evidence piles up to the contrary.

In all the years I've been diving, I've seen scores of threads "analyzing" diver deaths. And what they all have in common is a component of "if only he'd been diving like I dive, this wouldn't have happened". That attitude will almost always come from the very same people who insist that analyzing someone's accident will cause people to "learn" something, and to change their behavior ... even when they accept and admit that, for the most part, the discussion centers around speculations of what really happened. Rarely will the analyzers admit that it is THEY who need to do the learning ... it's nearly always someone else who needs to benefit from the discussion.

I've yet to see much changed behavior come from those discussions ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[nwscubamom]

I've yet to see much changed behavior come from those discussions ...

Not sure about others, but I definitely DO get wake up calls each time something happens. Maybe I'm not vocal about the changes I might make, but for me, I do change my behavior. Case in point - a number of my friends (we're all in the older set) have been bent, some several times now. I dialed back my computer to be more conservative knowing that some of my risk factors were changing. And whereas I used to "go in the yellow" on my computer, I no longer treat the yellow zone casually.

Another example - we had a diver die at Mukilteo I believe it was. He had separated from his buddy and was heading to the surface. Heaven knows I've done it with my buddy before a few times. (not regularly, but occasionally). It was during this separation time that he ran into trouble and died. There have been other instances over the years where there was trouble during an accidental or planned buddy separation. What did I learn from those?

Well, when my husband (who runs low on air well before I do) needs to head up, I go with him, even though I'd like to stay down and take more pics. OR, if I do stay down, I see him to the surface first, then I go down to maybe 10-20 feet nearby and take more photos. He can watch my bubbles.

NOT to say that solo diving isn't OK - don't twist this into some rant against solo diving! I'm just saying FOR ME, right now, diving with a buddy who is in sync with me can prove pretty helpful when the poop hits the fan. Maybe someday I'll do solo diving, who knows?

Anyway, bottom line is I *DO* change my behavior when bad stuff happens to other people. You just might not hear about it.

- Janna

[Tom Nic]

My guess is there's a lot of folks in your category Janna.

And I'll my name to the list.

[Grateful Diver]

Another example - we had a diver die at Mukilteo I believe it was. He had separated from his buddy and was heading to the surface. Heaven knows I've done it with my buddy before a few times. (not regularly, but occasionally). It was during this separation time that he ran into trouble and died. There have been other instances over the years where there was trouble during an accidental or planned buddy separation. What did I learn from those?

His name was Ben Giard ... a few months later Wayne Sargent lost his life at Sunrise. In both cases, OOA was not the direct cause, but a contributory one.

Those two deaths are what prompted me to start promoting gas management ... so in a way I guess it changed my behavior too. But gas management was something I already felt was important ... I just decided it was time to do something to get the message out there ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Lonestar]

I really wasn't sure about whether or not to weigh in on this as I have yet to do my OW. I do however, have more than a few hours of SCBA and have been on more responses than I can remember. First off, kudos to Bob. I am a firm believer in air management due to my inclination towards self-preservation.

What we decide to do with what we've learned is on us. We are taught certain procedures that are meant to minimize inherent risks. Over time we incorporate "short cuts" and variations to those procedures. The more often we short cut the procedure, the more confident we become that we can continue to do so without consequence. (yeah I was a Safety Officer once upon a time)

So, you decide to accept a level of risk and your team mates are on-board with you then it is all good right? How about if something goes wrong? Do you have a contingency plan that you've practiced? What about the level of risk that those coming to save/recover you are exposed to? Are you willing to expose them to that risk? Are you certain that they are going to accept the level of risk required to save/recover you? The cold, hard truth is that your life likely won't be worth theirs.

The fire world has NIOSH reports which examine member fatalities and the causative factors are fairly common in these reports yet they continue to appear in report after report. Kinda seems that way in the scuba world too. The information is out there, what we decide to do with it is on us.

My two cents worth.

[LCF]

I know I have changed behavior because of fatalities. The fellow who got knocked off the rocks at the Alki pipeline made me institute a policy of having my wing full before I put my feet in the water (and making sure my buddies have done that, too). The fellow who was found hung up in the chain at the Cove 2 buoys has made me VERY careful about using them as descent tools.

I try to look at every accident and think about how what happened relates to me, and how I make choices and how I dive. And Wes's death combined with my experience last night to tell me that, despite being very safety-minded, I, too, have become complacent.