This makes me sick, Makah Indian tribe kills whale with gun

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:34 am

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296185,00.html

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:36 am

And I still hate the fact they got their "right" to hunt whales back those years ago. :|

Sergeant Pepper · Post by **Sergeant Pepper** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:33 pm

Chris wrote:And I still hate the fact they got their "right" to hunt whales back those years ago. :|

You gotta love victim groups... up to 5 grey whales per year, are they serious? I don't think their traditions involved a .50 caliber machine gun, but I'm just guessing.

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:50 pm

this is idiotic on so many levels

airsix · Post by **airsix** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:20 pm

lamont wrote:this is idiotic on so many levels

Including the reporting. The whale was NOT shot with a machine gun. The whale should not have been shot, but they don't need to make sensationalist errors like that. We are sufficiently outraged without the image of illegal automatic weapons, which is a fabrication of the media's imagination.

-Ben

sparky · Post by **sparky** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:32 pm

This just goes to prove that some people are only alive because its eligeal to shoot them

cultural Rights my

listen if your Ancestors were goffy enough to trade the tribe's land for a pocket full of SHINNY Beads and some FIRE water then your

The way I see it I should be able to hunt them I have Ancestors that did what about my cultural rights ?

ok you can call me a " A Hole " I dont care but I think its way past time this kind of stupid crap is stoped

oh never mind

I rember now in my history lessons

in School they did tell me that some of the tribes had 50 cal mechine guns. and it is suspected that a few even had " Nuquler Weseals "

Give me a brake ](*,) they realy have the subsistence fishing rights to kill whales?

What century are they living in ?

Some one should tell them about that new invention called the Supper Market .
ok enough from the Peanut Gallery
Sparky

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:24 am

airsix wrote:
lamont wrote:this is idiotic on so many levels
Including the reporting. The whale was NOT shot with a machine gun. The whale should not have been shot, but they don't need to make sensationalist errors like that. We are sufficiently outraged without the image of illegal automatic weapons, which is a fabrication of the media's imagination.

-Ben

If it makes you feel any better I'm pro-2nd amendment. I just wasn't sure if they could've really been talking about the M2 .50 or what. Maybe it was just modified to be a legal semi. :P

Nwbrewer · Post by **Nwbrewer** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:02 am

As much as I'm not really in favor of whale hunting, you should know it was not the Makah's idea to shoot the whale with rifle.

My understanding from previous years hunts was that the Makah wanted to hunt the whale in the traditional way (harpoons and canoes only) DFW or whoever they secure the permit through required the rifle usage as being more humane...

Jake

EDIT - http://www.komotv.com/news/9680792.html

From this story it appears that this may have been a case of poaching. I still don't really understand the alure of hunting whales for meet. There's no way that can taste good.....

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:27 am

Yes, it was on the news this morning and the 5 poachers may be facing felony charges. What is upsetting is that one guy was talking about how he was "proud" of what he'd done and that whaling is "in the (his) blood."

I'm curious though - what did they think would happen? Did they think they wouldn't get caught? How would you hide a dead WHALE?! These guys knew what they were doing. They had an agenda beyond taking a whale.

TCWestby · Post by **TCWestby** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:29 am

I believe they were supposed to use traditional methods. I didn't know they had high powered rifles and Evinrudes 150 years ago.

This comment comes from someone who also is a native american. My realatives just came here 2000 years later than theirs.... I want my casino....

Nwbrewer · Post by **Nwbrewer** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:37 am

By their permit, they were supposed to use "traditional methods", i.e. Canoe's and harpoons, with the addition of the .50 caliber rifle to end the whale's life "humanely".

It appears that the individuals who participated in this hunt did it without a permit, without tribal approval, and using more modern methods, and with a rifle of signifcantly less penetrating power than what was dictated by permit.

I'm betting these guys are going to jail for a while once the Feds get ahold of them ......

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:01 pm

And they were turned over to tribal police... which if I'm not mistaken, means it's already a federal case. Fortunately, between the law and the publicity this caused, they're going away for a while.

John Rawlings · Post by **John Rawlings** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:35 pm

Sounder wrote:.....between the law and the publicity this caused, they're going away for a while.

Not unless you're living on a different planet than I am. I very much doubt that much will happen to them at all.....

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:46 pm

John Rawlings wrote:
Sounder wrote:.....between the law and the publicity this caused, they're going away for a while.
Not unless you're living on a different planet than I am. I very much doubt that much will happen to them at all.....

Think so? I'm wondering (and this is a question for Mrs. Sounder... which I'll ask when she's home tonight) if felony charges such as are indicated in this case, would fall under BIA. Certainly, if the prosecution wishes to further charge them, they can also chase Marine Mammal Protection Act violation charges as well.

As I understand it, they violated laws from several jurisdictions... tribal law, federal law, and state law. I bet if someone lets them off easy in one court, another will use their opportunity for prosecution to ensure they're punished.

But, sigh, then again this IS America... where the judicial system doesn't always come through.

John Rawlings · Post by **John Rawlings** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 2:39 pm

Over the years I've seen WAY too many species taken out of season, with illegal means, at night, en masse, etc. by people claiming to have tribal status....all with no repercussions.... to even THINK that this case will have the ending that is justified.

- John

GillyWeed · Post by **GillyWeed** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:04 pm

John Rawlings wrote:
Sounder wrote:
.....between the law and the publicity this caused, they're going away for a while.

Not unless you're living on a different planet than I am. I very much doubt that much will happen to them at all.....

Think so? I'm wondering (and this is a question for Mrs. Sounder... which I'll ask when she's home tonight) if felony charges such as are indicated in this case, would fall under BIA. Certainly, if the prosecution wishes to further charge them, they can also chase Marine Mammal Protection Act violation charges as well.

As I understand it, they violated laws from several jurisdictions... tribal law, federal law, and state law. I bet if someone lets them off easy in one court, another will use their opportunity for prosecution to ensure they're punished.

But, sigh, then again this IS America... where the judicial system doesn't always come through.

I guess the only thing that one who wants justice has going for them is that it was widely publisized poaching..

Being 1/4 native american I am very sensitive to this issue.. I don't think that anyone needs to hunt whales anymore..

However, I do feel that native americans did not trade their land for shinny beads and fire water.. They had it taken by force and there was a lot of raping and pillaging going on along the way. I am not trying to single you out, Sparky although I did use your words.. It just isn't as cut and dried as people make it seem. And if you aren't native american and want a casino maybe you should take that up to your local polititians. Apparently casinos are not family friendly so white bread america shouldn't have them. What does that tell you about how the polititians feel about native americans?

Again, I am appalled equally with the death of the whale. And it's not right for anyone to hide behind tribal status to poach, cheat or steal. I am reminded of a few rotten apples spoiling the bunch. But please be careful with the stereotyping. Someone might be hurt or offended by it and not say anything, unlike me..

Post by **Sea of Green** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:09 pm

Somebody needs to tell the Makahs that they can't have their Keiko and eat it too...

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:20 pm

Every once in a while, it's important to remember we're all friends here...

This is a sensitive issue with many passionate, sometimes conflicting, opinions. I don't think anyone has crossed the line, but let's just work together to ensure that doesn't happen.

After all, while in the water we all blow the same bubbles...
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Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:21 pm

Sea of Green wrote:Somebody needs to tell the Makahs that they can't have their Keiko and eat it too...

airsix · Post by **airsix** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:02 pm

Sea of Green wrote:Somebody needs to tell the Makahs that they can't have their Keiko and eat it too...

Valerie will stop by later to administer your pun-ishment. She apparently has a low tolerance.

-Ben

diver-dad · Post by **diver-dad** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:31 pm

Saddened, I slowly shake my head at the senselessness of it all....

At some level, they may indeed feel they had the "right" to do what they did, but I wonder how much of it was driven by that indignent "in-your-face" / "I can do what I want" attitude that you see in some people, fueled by some need to "prove" their virility and manhood.

I applaud the Makah Tribal Council that denounced the accused poachers as "renegades," saying "We are a law-abiding people and we will not tolerate lawless conduct by any of our members..."

diver-dad · Post by **diver-dad** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:35 pm

entry deleted by DD

Huskychemist · Post by **Huskychemist** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:49 am

Gillyweed, thanks for writing what you did.

I, for one, feel like there's a lot of hatred and stereotyping going on. There have been other threads about issues where folks didn't resort to this, and the discussion was valuable. I haven't seen much of value come from this yet...unless sarcastic attacks and generalizations count for something.

These poachers are almost too easy of a target... What about the other problems facing AMERICA? Problems that affect millions of people? (Poverty, Hazardous Waste sites, over-indulgence in material things, overflowing landfills, pollution, lack of health insurance, and the list goes on.) For some reason, I doubt these five poachers have a monopoly on wasteful hunting practices. Trust me. I grew up in rural central Washington and observed it every hunting season.

Does that make it right?

Not in my eyes. But I'd prefer to condemn the poachers, not the entire people.

I hesitate to write much more, as I don't want to stir the flames more than I already have...

Oh yeah...and Happy Diving!

Lowell

GillyWeed · Post by **GillyWeed** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:41 am

Thanks Lowell!

I agree 100% with all that you wrote!

Happy Diving! (especially if you are diving the crystal clear warm waters of Thailand, right?) $\:D/$

Holly

thelawgoddess · Post by **thelawgoddess** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:01 am

Huskychemist wrote:For some reason, I doubt these five poachers have a monopoly on wasteful hunting practices. Trust me. I grew up in rural central Washington and observed it every hunting season.

that's along the lines of one of the many things i was thinking ... why is it okay to hunt some creatures and not others? i'm not saying we should just allow everybody to hunt whatever they want, but why do we draw lines and why are the lines drawn where they are, and who has the right to make those decisions and why do they have that right? and on another note, why the f*** is it okay to hunt animals that are only going to be used as trophies? (all rhetorical questions - for thought; not argument!)

i agree that the nature of this particular event is just not good but i'm not going to expound on my reasons. there would still have been a lot of outrage if it the hunt had been "legal" and it seems to me that there a lot of people who are very quick to judge and make generalizations ... and just get really upset because it's a whale.

Northwest Dive Club

This makes me sick, Makah Indian tribe kills whale with gun

This makes me sick, Makah Indian tribe kills whale with gun

Don't know what to say...

Re: Don't know what to say...