Missing diver

[YellowEye]

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/ ... 9646a.html

..not a lot of detail, anybody know more? Let's hope everybody's okay.

[L.A.]

Sad indeed. My thoughts go out to the family and friends of the missing.

[cardiver]

So is that Owens beach or Les Davis? Nice description of the poor guy. As if that's really necessary....
My thoughts are with his family......

[L.A.]

Nice description of the poor guy. As if that's really necessary....

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[bnboly]

Between the man's description and the location of where he was diving I can just imagine what the family is thinking.

I'm sure all of our thoughts are with the family.

[Kirby]

Sounds as though it is not even confirmed that a person is missing from the last news reports, just that a diver was seen going down. No word on vehicle left at site or anything else yet. Looks like Les Davis from the shot on the news at the large white bouy? I saw boats making passes on the news with binoculars looking across the surface. Any divers in the water? Probably not without a last seen location. Mention was made of currents on site..... At Les Davis? Probably not. My guess would be right at the bottom of the Bouy chain, in the fish line at the end of the pier, or at home watching the news wondering who is missing.

[Pinkpadigal]

One of my instructors was teaching a dry suit class at Les Davis. They had just finished their 2nd dive and a diver surfaced near the yellow buoy. They though that was very strange and he was extremely far from shore. He appeared, to my instructor (Scott) that he was trying to swim in, but was struggling. Scott and the others tried to signal to him and he didn't respond. The diver was alone. Scott and his DM (Eric) geared up and got into the water. The diver then diappeared below the surface as they were getting in the water. One of the divers in the class then called 911 and Scott and Eric swam to where they saw him last and did search patterns. Tacoma PD and Coast Guard showed up and continued the search for a while, then after a few hours, they called off the search.

Most of the divers in the class were also rescue certified. They all felt depressed because they couldn't do more. They were not sure, but they believe they had talked to the man briefly earlier on shore. He was in his late 50's and wearing a wet suit. The noticed he was diving alone.

[sparky]

Before you read this please rember I do not insult people on here if I have some some thing to say we will have a conversation in person or at the least I will call you

that being said

Amy
I am just wondering how the instructor and DM mentioned were running there search?
Was one or both carrying a real? How are they sure they did not spend there time searching a area they have search all ready

I do not mean to belittle there daring act at trying to rescue the missing diver.
Lord knows we need more people willing to risk every thing for the sake of a stranger.

But as a Public Safety Diver I for one would like to know how they ran there search.

I have heard and or read about more then one attempt of well meaning divers that do just this and every one has had the same result.

I was just wondering if one perhaps the Dm would hold a line for the other, in this case I would guess the instructor to swim a set search pattern.
I know I for one would have done my best to look for and locate the missing diver, as we all know time is of the essence.

Please do not think I am taking away from there heroic act this is not my intention at all in fact I commend them

But like a said I am a public Safety Diver and could one day god forbid called and ask to do a search for a missing person in our waters.

Amy You mention that most of the divers in the class are rescue certified
And I am sure they felt sick at there inability to help.

Now this may be an unpopular school of thought but here goes any way.
Does a recreation diver with a rescue diver’s certification have the proper gear and training to recover a body in the water?

Many things have to happen in a set order before
The body can be recovered and brought to the surface and then there is the issue of evidence.

I am sure you relies that any time there is a death the body and any thing that touches it is considered evidence. This would include but not be limited to dive gear. Only a medical examiner
Could declare the death an accident. Even with witnesses on scene.

In fact a diver not under the direction of law enforcement. Doing the simple thing like say removing the weight belt or dropping the ditch able weights is in fact tampering with a crime scene or at the very least evidence.

I usually to not reply to post like these, other then to say how sad it is but I think there is another side of this that should be looked at by the diver with even the best of intentions.

I for one know this full well from my training as a Public Safety Diver and would be one of the first in the water,
I am just amazed that in this day of ME first there are still people out there that are willing to take the risk and do the right thing

My hat is off to your instructor ( Scott ) and the DM ( Eric ) these are the types of divers we should all inspire to be and a special thanks to the student that had the clearness of thought to call 911



My thoughts and prayers go to the friends and familey of this missing diver.

it seems to me there has been way to many divers lost this year


Sparky

[Nwbrewer]

You know Sparky I kind of understand your point, but at the same time I think it would be a real shame if people start to be afraid to render aid to people in trouble because thier worried about evidence contamination.

To take your example out of diving, if you see someone collapse on the street do you not give them help because your worried what might have made them collapse was a crime and you're worried about contaminating the crime scene?

I applaud the efforts of Amy's instructor and DM for doing whatever they could to help this guy. I think we need more people in this world who will drop what thier doing to help strangers in trouble, as long as thier not setting themselves up to add to the list of victims.

They used to tell us in CPR class, even if you don't remeber the exact right ratio's of breaths to compressions, or you don't know if you're doing something just right, do the CPR anyway, because it's better than doing nothing.

While these divers might not have been trianed in body recovery, and may not have run a professional search grid, what they did was better than the alternative. At least they gave the guy a chance by looking for him.

Jake

[Marc]

Any diver that doesn't give the effort to assist one that is in potential danger shouldn't be in the water. Not all divers are PSDs or Dive Medics or Rescue divers for that matter, but best efforts should be made. Jesus we are talking about a life, not a page of legal BS.

Before you read this please rember I do not insult people on here if I have some some thing to say we will have a conversation in person or at the least I will call you

that being said

Amy
I am just wondering how the instructor and DM mentioned were running there search?
Was one or both carrying a real? How are they sure they did not spend there time searching a area they have search all ready

I do not mean to belittle there daring act at trying to rescue the missing diver.
Lord knows we need more people willing to risk every thing for the sake of a stranger.

But as a Public Safety Diver I for one would like to know how they ran there search.

I have heard and or read about more then one attempt of well meaning divers that do just this and every one has had the same result.

I was just wondering if one perhaps the Dm would hold a line for the other, in this case I would guess the instructor to swim a set search pattern.
I know I for one would have done my best to look for and locate the missing diver, as we all know time is of the essence.

Please do not think I am taking away from there heroic act this is not my intention at all in fact I commend them

But like a said I am a public Safety Diver and could one day god forbid called and ask to do a search for a missing person in our waters.

Amy You mention that most of the divers in the class are rescue certified
And I am sure they felt sick at there inability to help.

Now this may be an unpopular school of thought but here goes any way.
Does a recreation diver with a rescue diver’s certification have the proper gear and training to recover a body in the water?

Many things have to happen in a set order before
The body can be recovered and brought to the surface and then there is the issue of evidence.

I am sure you relies that any time there is a death the body and any thing that touches it is considered evidence. This would include but not be limited to dive gear. Only a medical examiner
Could declare the death an accident. Even with witnesses on scene.

In fact a diver not under the direction of law enforcement. Doing the simple thing like say removing the weight belt or dropping the ditch able weights is in fact tampering with a crime scene or at the very least evidence.

I usually to not reply to post like these, other then to say how sad it is but I think there is another side of this that should be looked at by the diver with even the best of intentions.

I for one know this full well from my training as a Public Safety Diver and would be one of the first in the water,
I am just amazed that in this day of ME first there are still people out there that are willing to take the risk and do the right thing

My hat is off to your instructor ( Scott ) and the DM ( Eric ) these are the types of divers we should all inspire to be and a special thanks to the student that had the clearness of thought to call 911



My thoughts and prayers go to the friends and familey of this missing diver.

it seems to me there has been way to many divers lost this year


Sparky

[Pinkpadigal]

Sparky,

Scott is a public safety diver. He is on the Thurston Cty dive team. He is very fast swimmer and does search patterns better than anyone I know. I was not on the scene but I am confident that he and Eric did everything possible to try to find the diver. Did they use a reel or have a lift bag? I don't think so. The goal was try to save a diver in trouble, not recover a body. I do know they were limited on air, and the rescue team was there very shortly after they got in the water.

Once the professionals arrived, they took over the rescue/recovery efforts. Scott, Eric and the rest of the group left before any of the news cameras showed up.

The main rule I teach in rescue class is that there is no wrong way to save someone's life. We teach skills to help to do it effectively but efforts by recreational divers are ones of life saving and split second decisions. The 2nd rule is never endanger yourself, otherwise it becomes 2 rescues.

[Grateful Diver]

Couple of comments ...

First off, the searchers weren't looking for a body ... they were looking for a potentially-missing diver. Two very different scenarios as there is no evidence that the diver they witnessed submerging ended up dead. It's likely he decided that since he wasn't making progress on the surface, he'd drop down and try swimming in underwater. I've seen this successfully done a couple times ... most recently at Mukilteo.

Second comment ... yesterday we experienced more current than expected. I had to make the decision to call off diving at the Dive for the Cure event because of it. At first I thought I just screwed up ... but after talking to both captains on the safety boats, and consulting with the current charts afterward, I had to conclude that the current we experienced wasn't what anyone was expecting. Last night's dive at Redondo re-affirmed that, as we damn near got blown out of the water. It's not hard for me to envision unusual currents in the vicinity of Les Davis that would take some divers by surprise. Sometimes the currents don't do what the charts say they're supposed to ... that's why they call 'em "predictions".

Third ... the "dope on a rope" search technique is designed for divers searching a bottom topography, which wouldn't have been possible in this location. The yellow buoy that Amy mentioned marks the outfall line for the North End Wastewater Treatment Plant. I have not dived it ... but I work for the City, and the people who put it there tell me it's in roughly 150 feet of water. That's pretty far out there and pretty deep for anyone in sport gear to be attempting a rescue. I admire anyone who's going to make that swim (it's a long swim) and an attempt at a search ... but it's hardly surprising that a search would be unsuccessful. Even professional rescue divers would have a difficult time in those conditions.

Hopefully the "missing diver" simply swam to shore, got in his car, and left ... completely unaware of the activities he left in his wake. That's ... unfortunately ... the best possible outcome. Otherwise, as happens further down the beach at Lobster Shop Wall, a diver in distress would likely end up in water so deep that they may never be found ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Celeus]

On the off chance that anyone wasn't already aware, most states have Good Samaritan laws that protect a non-professional from civil liability if they render aid- even if they do it incorrectly.

In many cases these protections go away if you stop giving assistance before someone else equally or better qualified has arrived, or you are unable to (e.g. can't physically perform CPR anymore), or you feel your safety is in danger (this would be a big one for our community). I don't see a reference to that exception in the Washington law, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

Washingtons law is available at: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=4.24.300

I for one will not fault, in the slightest, any non-professional who does not render aid because they have exercised their judgment that it wouldn't be wise for them to do so. People have commitments to other people and things that go beyond themselves- a parent may have more responsibility to protect themselves than those of us who do not have children. It's their decision, not mine.

It sounds like experienced, thoughtful, trained people did what they thought- and probably was- right. That seems to me to be more than any of us can reasonably expect to happen. I'll keep any questions I might have to myself at least until more information is available.

Hopefully this person just has a story and sore muscles from this experience.

[sparky]

I am not sayin these two MEN were wrong infact I was actuly trying to point out just the other

If my thought were insulting to any one I am sorry just shareing my thoughts
did not intend to hurt any ones fellings

like I said my hat is off to these two brave men and If I was there I would have done the same thing .
Sparky

[Huskychemist]

I am not sayin these two MEN were wrong infact I was actuly trying to point out just the other

If my thought were insulting to any one I am sorry just shareing my thoughts
did not intend to hurt any ones fellings

like I said my hat is off to these two brave men and If I was there I would have done the same thing .
Sparky

Sparky,

I understood your first post as a way to offer praise to the actual individuals involved here, but to raise discussion about the PROCESS we all use for such events.

I didn't think you were criticizing the individuals involved in this specific incident...rather, you were asking us to consider the process in general of how we deal with rescue, etc.

Thanks.

Happy and SAFE diving.

Lowell

[rjarnold]

So is there still no news on this guy? If no one has reported him missing by now, I would almost assume that he's not (ie, he managed to get out and leave), or that he didn't tell anyone that he went diving... Weird.

[Grateful Diver]

I read elsewhere that there were no unaccounted cars in the parking lot ... and no missing person report ... and therefore the law enforcement folks involved concluded that whomever it was made it to shore and went home ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Seth T.]

I read elsewhere that there were no unaccounted cars in the parking lot ... and no missing person report ... and therefore the law enforcement folks involved concluded that whomever it was made it to shore and went home ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Well, that would be a relief.

[Kirby]

I have made the dive down that bouy line when it was even farther out than it is now (they moved it in to the first discharge port, it was 10 ft deeper than the end of the pipe at 160), you can get a mean surface current, but bottom current is usually less than a knot in the worst conditions. There can also be a downwelling current coming down slope from 60 to 90 ft above the pipe box. Not a dive for beginners. If you stay clear of the discharges which start at 130 ft it is a nice dive.

The diver I found at the Lobster Shop wall has been identified by the coroners office, it was Chad. I am also a public safety diver, and did not move or otherwise alter the position of Chad when I found him. The scene was video taped and photographed by the police prior to the recovery.

Realistically, unless you are in the water with the person who drowns, you are doing recovery. As a public safety diver I have had the misfortune to participate in 3 drowning recoveries. Very Sad.

Kirby

[CaptnJack]

Thanks for wrapping up Chad's sad story.

[Sounder]

I trust that the people on shore were pretty sure it was a diver, but having not seen it myself, is there any chance it could have been a seal or sealion acting strangely?

Given the distance, assuming no binoc's, the black wetsuit, no car, no swim into shore, diving back down, no response, no missing person report, etc. - in my mind and opinion, it isn't ruled out.

Again, I wasn't there but as this is a discussion it isn't beyond reason to have a case of mistaken identity.

I also echo the thanks for Kirby answering the Chad question.

[lamont]

Now this may be an unpopular school of thought but here goes any way.
Does a recreation diver with a rescue diver’s certification have the proper gear and training to recover a body in the water?

No, they are not trained in body recovery.

They are, however, trained to do search patterns and to rescue unconscious divers. They may not be successful and the training may not be adequate, but within the limits of their abilities and without placing themselves at risk, they should try. I think i've had unconscious diver rescues in 3 or 4 classes now and i'm getting better at it, but i'm still learning how to do it.

Many things have to happen in a set order before
The body can be recovered and brought to the surface and then there is the issue of evidence.

There's no law against accidentally destroying or not preserving evidence in the attempt to save someone's life. And if you witness a diver go underwater and find them unconscious on the bottom you don't know how long they've been there unconscious and can assume that a rescue might save their life (in reality, probably not, and in reality you're probably doing a recovery, but personally i'm doing everything i can assuming the best until it turns into the worst).

I am sure you relies that any time there is a death the body and any thing that touches it is considered evidence. This would include but not be limited to dive gear. Only a medical examiner
Could declare the death an accident. Even with witnesses on scene.

Completely irrelevant when attempting a rescue.

In fact this cuts the other way. A rescuer doesn't have the tools to declare it an accident, but they also don't have the necessary tools to declare the person to be dead and the law takes recognition of that fact. It isn't a rescuers duty to determine that a person is beyond saving and that evidence needs to be preserved, the rescuer can assume the person can be saved and that preservation of human life takes precedence.

In fact a diver not under the direction of law enforcement. Doing the simple thing like say removing the weight belt or dropping the ditch able weights is in fact tampering with a crime scene or at the very least evidence.

That's just *complete* misinformation.