Nitrogen to blame?

[Pez7378]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... al30m.html

[TCWestby]

I'm no scientist and this may seem stupid but why can't we just re-oxigenate the water?

I see fish ponds all the time pumping air in why can't this be done with the canal? Other than the cost that is.

[Sounder]

I'm no scientist and this may seem stupid but why can't we just re-oxigenate the water?

I see fish ponds all the time pumping air in why can't this be done with the canal? Other than the cost that is.

There is FAR to much of a size difference for this to work. The Hood Canal is just simply too large to have this work. As I understand it, the best way to get oxygen back in the water is water exchange and wind (surface activity puts oxygen back in the water).

I believe the problem is not that enough oxygen isn't going INTO the water, it's that there are things consuming too much of the oxygen that is in the water which doesn't leave enough for the other critters. This problem is compounded by human introduction of things to feed these oxygen-eaters... like nitrogen.

[airsix]

CaptnJack knows more about water than all of us put together, but just for fun, here's my quick estimate:

Hood canal holds 55,355,844 gallons of water (give or take a few).
Aeration requirements for healthy fish in standing water is 40 liters of air per minute per 1,000 gallons (formula used for ponds).
So the aeration requirement would be about 2,214,234 liters of air per minute.
A 300hp compressor can pump 33,980 liters of air per minute.
So, it would take 65 of these 300hp compressors to pump enough air to oxygenate hood canal.
A 300hp diesel engine at 75% power consumes about 18 gallons per hour. Times 65 compressors = 1,170 gallons per hour.
Times $4.64 per gallon (average US diesel price) = $5,429 per hour or $130,291 per day,...or $47.6 million per year.
Plus the cost of equipment, maintenance, operators, etc.

And this is just to oxygenate healthy 'standing' water. I have no idea how much greater the aeration requirement would be due to the excessive nitrogen/algae situation.

I think the area will be better served by just processing their crap properly.
Attention coastal North America: Stop pooping in the water!!!!!

-Ben

[Sounder]

Nice work Ben.

[spatman]

CaptnJack knows more about water than all of us put together, but just for fun, here's my quick estimate:

Hood canal holds 55,355,844 gallons of water (give or take a few).
Aeration requirements for healthy fish in standing water is 40 liters of air per minute per 1,000 gallons (formula used for ponds).
So the aeration requirement would be about 2,214,234 liters of air per minute.
A 300hp compressor can pump 33,980 liters of air per minute.
So, it would take 65 of these 300hp compressors to pump enough air to oxygenate hood canal.
A 300hp diesel engine at 75% power consumes about 18 gallons per hour. Times 65 compressors = 1,170 gallons per hour.
Times $4.64 per gallon (average US diesel price) = $5,429 per hour or $130,291 per day,...or $47.6 million per year.
Plus the cost of equipment, maintenance, operators, etc.

And this is just to oxygenate healthy 'standing' water. I have no idea how much greater the aeration requirement would be due to the excessive nitrogen/algae situation.

I think the area will be better served by just processing their crap properly.
Attention coastal North America: Stop pooping in the water!!!!!

-Ben

lol. calvin was asking the wrong guy for info on another thread. he should have gone straight to airsix!

[CaptnJack]

Ben that is the funniest thing I've seen about Hood Canal!

[TCWestby]

Someone needs to be spending more time diving, he obviously has way too much time on his hands...

[airsix]

Someone needs to be spending more time diving, he obviously has way too much time on his hands...

Ha! It's been so long since I had any time on my hands I can't even remember what it feels like to be bored.
But you're right - I definitely need to spend more time diving. I hope you saw my post as humor - I wasn't trying to be a smart-@$$. I just thought it would be fun to estimate the cost. I live with a calculator in my hand so it was a reflex.

-Ben

[stillhope]

YOU may think it's funny, but I was at a meeting a couple of years ago, and a couple of different companies actually outlined plans to pump oxygen into Hood Canal. One proposed using barges to hold the O2 tanks and pumps, and having diffusers hanging into the water from them. Fortunately, better heads prevailed, and I haven't heard any talk of that since.

I filmed Monday's meeting at which the scientists outlined their findings, and DVDs of it will eventually be available -- I'm not sure yet if it will be the full 5.5 hours, or just the 1.5 hour summary presentation. I'm not calling the shots as far as distribution goes, so if you want a copy, watch the Hood Canal Dissolved Oxygen Program site. It may be a week or 2 or 3 before news of the distribution is posted.

http://www.hoodcanal.washington.edu/

If you want to see a short video about some of the science being used to research the issue, including some rare underwater footage of scientific instruments in action, see:

http://www.stillhopeproductions.com/Sea ... HCDOP.html

[TCWestby]

I don't get why would we need to use Diesel fired compressors not electric. Even if we can't do all at once any little bit will help. It also seems that if there are defective septic systems out there then the state or county's can make the homeowners get them up to code. I've seen it done in Island county.

Now I'm getting political Sorry in advance

The State can find all the money to help out those who refuse to help themselves, why don't they pony up for those who cannot help themselves. Oh yeh, fish don't vote....

[airsix]

How about a voter initiative forcing the sewer-spewing communities (all of Puget Sound!) including municipalities with overflow problems to fix it. And punish harshly if they don't. Bring on the LIDs. I don't care how much it costs. There is no excuse for dumping untreated/poorly-treated sewage. I don't understand why coastal communities traditionally get away with this. Inland communities don't. When I was younger I worked for an engineering company that designed and built a sewer treatment plant in Idaho on the Snake River. The discharge exceeded drinking water standards. It had capacity for excessive runoff. It never released raw sewage. And know how it was powered? There was about a 4ft drop in the river right by the site so we got the permits and built a small hydro electric generator right there on-site (only a small amount of water was diverted to the turbine). The whole stinkin' facility was self-sustaining and only had grid-power as a backup. Sorry about the rant. I just see Puget Sound and BC dumping their $&!+ in the ocean and it torques me off. :naka:

-Ben

[TCWestby]

I be for that, I know that Seattle could do it pretty easy especially now that there is searate storm and sewage systems. If the mayor would spend more time on getting the city compliant than worrying about bottled water, trollys that don't help commuters, and a tunnel replacement for the viaduct we'd be in alot better shape.

Okay, I'm done ranting...

[BASSMAN]

How about turning the Hood Canal in to an actual Canal and not a deep, picturesque fjord?

A couple of Dozers / Earth movers stratigically placed at the South end...

Thats about as complicated I'm willing to make it.

Airsix can give the amount of earth that would actually need to be moved.

[lamont]

there's gotta be some chemical we can dump into saltwater that would spontaneously liberate oxygen...

we could crack the water itself to get hydrogen and oxygen, but that's very expensive, and hydrogen is actually a poor battery for electricity...

[BASSMAN]

I blame "Increased Nitrogen" for my Scuba Addiction!