Separated From Buddy Safety Stop Protocol Question

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:50 am

Got a question, which I'll preface with a story: Was diving Les Davis with 3 other folks. We were diving together, but were in buddy pairs. The pre-dive plan was that if our pairs got separated, no big deal, but if you get separated from your buddy for more than a minute surface and get back together. Pretty standard stuff. Viz was sucky... 5 feet would be too generous, it was more like 3. We dropped to about 80 feet, and were working our way back upslope. at about 40 ft, 20 minutes or so into the dive we got separated. (the why is for another thread) I was the lone diver, and after the futility of trying to find anybody at dusk in 3 ft. of vis began to abort the dive and did a midwater ascent from 40 ft. We had done one other 50 minute dive with a maximum of maybe 45 ft. that day about 2 hours earlier, so we had no deco obligation.

I did my regular 3 minute safety stop, and then surfaced to find 3 worried divers going over scenarios at the surface. They had NOT done a safety stop and had just gone straight up (at a safe ascent rate). Everybody was kind, and I felt bad about worrying them, and realized that this was something that after 80 dives I didn't have a specific protocol for in general or with my own regular dive buddy in particular.

(Perhaps I wasn't paying attention to one of my instructors at that point!)

My question is this: Upon being separated from your buddy and meeting at the surface do you do your normal 3 minute safety stop or just forego it completely? Perhaps this is a "silly" question, and I feel kind of "dumb" for asking it, but my buddy and I realized that we had not discussed this detail of our own dive protocol. So in the spirit of being continual learners and my own contention that there is no such thing as a stupid question if you are sincere about wanting to know the answer, I'm posting here. I suppose it's possible that I'm the only one who "missed this", but perhaps there may be another newer diver like myself that this would help.

I'd love to get your learned opinions,

as well as hear if you've discussed this specific thing with your current buddy.

Thanks! -Tom Nic

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:14 am

I got separated from my dive buddies a while ago (also the subject for another story) and surfaced. We regularly discuss separation protocols, and in this case it worked perfectly.

Our protocol is to search for a minute and then begin the ascent. The ascent should be a standard ascent, buddy separation shouldn't be a situation that leads to someone else getting hurt . . . I know what a "standard" ascent will be in terms of timing because we dive using the same ascent patterns (for a free ascent, it would be a 30 fpm ascent to 75% of your max depth, with pauses on the tens up to your half depth and minute stops each ten from there).

I surfaced first, and knew--without fail--that my buddies would be coming up somewhere after a regular ascent. I was even able to calculate ascent time (about 5-7 minutes from 70 feet) and was able to check my watch and know when they'd hit the surface. They did, right on time. One of the lessons on this dive was that the strict adherence to a well-communicated protocol allowed things to go smoother, and kept the stress level down in an otherwise stressful situation.

Obviously, lots of protocols need to be rigorously followed in diving, but this in particular is one of them. The way I see it (as a "newer" diver) absolute predictability in terms of ascent time and a clear plan beforehand can let you know when it is time to start getting really worried . . . and in a worst case scenario can allow you to mobilize the troops at the earliest time possible.

GillyWeed · Post by **GillyWeed** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:43 am

Hi Tom Nic..

I wouldn't for go my safety stop unless I was really really worried that something might be wrong with my buddy. Because you have to think about your safety first. But it is something you should discuss before the dive.. Discussing lost buddy proceedures should include a "hey if we get sepparated I am going to look for x amount of minutes and then I am going to surface like I normally would, including my safety stops so I'll see you at the surface" Because communication is limited below we should always have it stated before the dive. You did what I would have done..

Cheers,

Holly

Rob Holman · Post by **Rob Holman** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:47 am

I think Mr Bailey has a great story about NOT doing a safety stop in all separation situations... I'll let him tell that one. it's a good lesson.

Basically, in my mind, the question of doing or not doing a safety stop/deco stop all depend on the situation. 80 feet for 20 min with no current, I would have paused for a minute at 10 feet and then taken 30 seconds to hit the surface.

100 feet for 20 min on air and I might re-consider that and do 2-3 min.

100 feet for 5 min and I would do a slow ascent to the surface with no extended safety stop.

Introduce current and you need to decide if it is dangerous to drift for several minutes prior to surfacing (boat traffic, being blown around a point so you cannot see your buddy, etc.)

Need to ask yourself if blowing off a safety stop would introduce more damage than doing a longer ascent. Each dive is different.

Rob Holman · Post by **Rob Holman** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:51 am

An alternative if you loose your buddy and decide you need to do the stop would be to shoot a surface marker buoy so they know where you are...

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:56 am

(Sounder sits down on the floor and folds his hands in his lap like a good little boy, and begins listening for wisdom)

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:01 pm

Sounder wrote:(Sounder sits down on the floor and folds his hands in his lap like a good little boy, and begins listening for wisdom)

Me too, my friend, me too!

Good stuff so far! Thanks and keep em coming!

Perhaps we are not the only ones to not have had this discussion yet!

dsteding · Post by **dsteding** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:05 pm

Rob Holman wrote:An alternative if you loose your buddy and decide you need to do the stop would be to shoot a surface marker buoy so they know where you are...

That is a good point, and something I think our team may integrate into their plan.

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:21 pm

(Thinking... I can think of several reasons to shoot the bag from helping with mid-water stop, to warning boats when you might be surfacing other than where you'd planned, to helping you reunite to continue your dive if desired... that's a great idea.)

(Still sitting and listening)

Rob Holman · Post by **Rob Holman** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:40 pm

Also you need to evaluate if a blue water ascent is wise, or if you are better off going up the shore line. I have had my butt kicked more than one time by mid water up and down wellings that were not present on the bottom (ever exhale and see your bubbles go down?). Consider surface current that is not present down below. you could end up a long way from where you started. Consider boat traffic as well.

Les Davis is pretty safe, but Possession Point Fingers often has severe surface current, as does Sunrise. Mukilteo could be tricky too. At Edmonds UW park (considered by many to be a beginner dive due to the shallow depth, but one I consider intermediate due to current, distance from shore, flat bottom contour, and proximity to ferries) you can get in a lot of trouble doing a direct ascent away from a buoy line.

runamonk · Post by **runamonk** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:01 pm

I would do my normal safety stop and then come up. While getting ready to do your safety stop, you could pop your SMB. Popping mine from 15' wouldn't be hard but it wouldn't be erect $\:D/$ either hehe. Those dan SMB's are bigguns hehe.

We were taught to do exactly what you did. =)

One other thing, it also depends on how long you've been down. If you've been down for 5 minutes, yeah I would skip the s.s. and come back up hehe.

Cera · Post by **Cera** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:30 pm

My answer to this question is : IT DEPENDS!
It really depends on the divers you are with.. for example if I get seperated from my husband, I don't worry and continue on with the dive, if I get 'seperated' from advanced divers (who have a buddy besides me) I would do a saftey stop if I were over halfway through my dive and our protocol was to surface if seperated (otherwise I would continue with dive). If I were diving with new divers, a new buddy or someone I was unsure of I would prolly surface (as long as it were safe,) after pausing at 15 feet to 'look for bubbles' for maybe a minute (as though you could see them in Puget sound)...
I agree that the best protocol is to discuss what to do each time you get in the water with each member.

RSdancey · Post by **RSdancey** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:49 am

Here's my proposed answer:

Unless actual deco is required, define safety stop as 3 minutes at 15 fsw regardless of prior dive plan.

* If the dive time is 10 minutes or less: NO STOP / DIRECT ASCENT

* If the dive time is greater than 10 minutes AND the dive plan called for a direct ascent: YES STOP, with deployment of SMB (surface marker buoy) at 50fsw

* If the dive plan would normally not involve a direct ascent to the surface (for example, a standard dive to the I-Beams, which assumes an ascent up the slope at least to the can buoy) follow this dive plan instead:

1) Follow the planned exit route if possible
A) Deploy SMB either
i) At point where vertical ascent begins
ii) At 50 feet of depth or less
B) YES STOP

2) If planned exit route not available or unknown (lost, silted out, etc.) AND direct ascent is possible
A) Begin direct ascent
B) Deploy SMB at 50fsw
C) YES STOP

3) If planned exit route not available or unknown, AND direct ascent is NOT possible (wreck, cave, overhead boat traffic, bridge deck, etc.):
A) Return to open water at fastest non-panicked rate
B) Either follow slope contour upwards, or make direct ascent as practical
C) Deploy SMB at 50fsw
D) YES STOP

Basically my operating theory is if the dive time is brief, a quick return to the surface may allow the divers to make contact and continue the dive with a reasonable amount of gas remaining, but beyond a certain point, the dive is going to be terminated anyway for gas planning reasons, and dive time has created enough nitrogen loading so that diver safety becomes paramount so the stop is worth making even if it makes the rest of the team nervous while they wait on the surface.

If each part of the separated team "shoots a bag" (deploying the SMB) then the first person who surfaces gets immediate reassurance that everything is OK and tells them where to swim to/wait for their team. It's also a good way to give boat traffic some indication that something is going on in "open water" and hopefully will keep your head and their hull separated.

If I was the first person to surface, and I did not see an SMB at the time anticipated, and could not see bubbles or any other sign of my team, I would prepare to initiate an emergency. I would wait 10 minutes more for the SMB/sign of divers, and failing that, would alert the shore to a diver down emergency, and then I would contemplate (depending on conditions below) returning to depth to commence a lost diver search. If I did descend at that point, I would fill my SMB and deploy the line on my descent so that if my team did surface after I had descended they would know I was OK and was below. (Team members who are in this situation should just wait on the surface at that point unless descending the line in reasonably clear water was a reasonable option).

Things to consider:

1) You have an SMB right? And you dive with it?

2) You have a spool right? And you dive with it?

3) You know how to deploy, shoot, and manage line for an SMB from depth, right?

4) How long is the line on your spool? (My standard spool prepacked with my SMB has about 70 feet of line, but I usually dive with either a 150 foot backup, or a 300 foot reel, so I could probably inflate a bag on the surface and return to any depth we're likely to dive at to initiate a search. If you have a smaller spool, the max depth you could search at would be limited by that line length....)

==========================

OK: The worst has happened. You've lost the team, and you don't have an SMB. My opinion is that you should make a controlled, direct ascent, with NO STOP from any depth. Once you connect with the team on the surface, descend to 15fsw and do a 5 minute stop as a team if you had a max depth greater than 75 fsw or a dive time longer than 20 minutes regardless of depth. If someone shoots a bag and you're on the surface waiting, drop down that line 15 feet and do the stop while you're waiting for them to make their ascent. They'll come up right under you and all will be well.

Rationale: You have no way to tell the team you're OK. If you weren't paying attention, you may have been "lost" for some time before you noticed that you're separated, then you do a 1 minute search, and maybe a swimming exit too, so your team may already be on the surface wondering where you are when you begin your ascent - and that time waiting for a lost diver on the surface is agonizing. The longer you're down without team contact, the more likely people are to assume there's a diver down emergency. In the diving we do direct ascents are mostly harmless, and a direct ascent, brief period on the surface, followed by a short descent and safety stop probably reduces "mostly" to "totally". So do the stop >after< you reconnect with the team.

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:02 am

This is how "My" dive Profile came up on my computer.
Decended down to 80' Imediately turned to go back because of poor vis.
15 min. into the dive and @ 30' fsw I lost visual contact with my buddy.
Stopped for 1 minute and looked around, gave the

sign to the other two divers and got the

sign back from one of them.
I communicated that "I" was going to surface and got a nod from one of the divers. {I think I should have established this with both of the divers} As I surfaced, at a safe ascent rate, I noticed the other two divers followed me up{ this is where the lack of communication, came into play}
The diver that I told "I" was going up said, "I wasn't going to come up right now." {I think he was just following his buddy at that point}.

So for the next three or four minutes we were looking for my buddy running scenarios through our thoughts. It was then I was asked "This is your normal dive budy, What have you two agreed to do in case of a seperation?"

all I had to go on was what I remember from my initial OW training.
"Look around for one minute and then surface"

My buddy sufaced about 15 or 20 yards away,after he did a 3 min safety stop, and we signaled the "Okay" to each other. No one was hurt. Yay!

I decided not to do a safety stop because I was only 15 minutes into the dive and was at 30 feet. Now, I'm not to sure that was a good decision.
My concern was for my buddy, more than myself, at that point.

I think the difference in thought proccess can be attributed to, My buddy has done his Rescue Diver Certification, I think that may help you think of "Self Rescue First" Which would be a good thing!

If I choose to blow off my Safety stop and get bent, what good am I for helping my buddy, if he is in some sort of trouble at the surface?

Well all in all, there is some good stuff to learn here. My buddy and I will remember to include a "what to do if we get seperated" clause in our pre-dive check's.

And it is forums like this, I hope can make us all better and safer divers and dive buddies.

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:14 am

Wow … I’m not sure I could remember all of that in a real-life situation. It’s good to think about these things, but it’s also easy to overthink them.

I believe Rob’s reference to me is regarding a buddy separation that Cheng and I had back when we were both very new divers. In fact, it was Cheng’s second post-OW dive … and I was the “experienced” buddy with about 25 dives under my weightbelt.

And it’s a good example to use in this situation …

We were diving at Edmonds Underwater Park … it was June, and the vis was less than 5 feet. Being new divers, we were following the protocols we had been taught and discussed a separation plan as part of our pre-dive briefing. I said “it’s shallow here, so if we get separated just go to the surface and we’ll hook up there”. She heard “it’s shallow here, so if we get separated just do your three-minute safety stop, go to the surface, and we’ll hook up there.”

So we swam out a ways, dropped down and started our dive. About 10 minutes into the dive we lost each other. We were in 24 feet of water, and when I surfaced I was pretty much straight out from the jetty. There was a slight current running south, so I had to struggle to maintain my position. After a few minutes, Cheng hadn’t surfaced, so I hollered over to the jetty to get some help.

Next thing you know, there’s divers swimming over, someone had called 911, and the ferry was launching a search boat. Within minutes there was a fire truck, two police cars, and an ambulance in the parking lot … and about 500 people lining up on the beach wondering what all the fuss was about.

Meanwhile, Cheng had done her safety stop and surfaced … but the current had pushed her over near the ferry dock. She realized that the current was going to take her into the dock, so rather than wait around for me, she just put her snorkel in her mouth and started swimming in toward the beach. Since she had her face in the water, she was completely unaware of all the excitement going on … until the “rescue boat” pulled up alongside her, tapped on her tank, and asked her if she was Cheng.

In the interim, me and a few other divers had been going down and groping around in the bad vis … made even worse by our “search” attempts … trying to locate her.

While it was a happy ending, the moral of the story is that you should …

(a) make sure that what you say and what your buddy hears amount to the same thing, and

(b) base your actions on the circumstances, but keep them as simple and consistent as possible ... the essence of "team diving" hinges on your dive buddy being able to "predict" what you're likely to do. Don't make it too hard on each other to do that.

Current can separate you, so if it is safe to make a direct ascent (which it usually is if you’re within recreational limits), do so. Three minutes is an eternity to a dive buddy sitting on the surface wondering what happened to you.

It is more important to ascend slowly than it is to make that 3-minute safety stop. And ascending slowly will be extremely difficult if you allow yourself to become over anxious about what happened to your buddy. So monitor your depth, and keep an eye on your time.

Make the stop if you’ve been diving aggressively … but if you’re ascending from a deep dive (e.g. 100 feet), at least pause a couple of times ... perhaps a minute at half your ascent depth and another minute at 15 feet … to let your body offgas. But remember that “safety stops” are not decompression obligations … they’re buffers to allow your body a little extra time to offgas before you surface. A more important consideration is to keep your ascent rate under control … and even slow it down as you get closer to the surface.

Think about what you’re doing. It’s not necessary to remember a convoluted set of protocols for a bunch of different situations … you’re going to have enough on your mind just keeping your ascent under control while you worry about what might be happening to your dive buddy. It IS necessary to understand that the more nitrogen you put into your body, the more important it is to make that ascent slowly … and apply some common sense to keeping yourself safe as you decide how much “detention time” you will need under the circumstances. Concentrate on keeping your ascent under control.

And if there’s a current running, perhaps shooting a bag might not be such a good idea. It could just create more separation between you and your buddy as it will provide additional drag that might pull you along in the current faster than it is pulling your buddy … so only shoot the bag if the circumstances call for it, and if doing so isn’t likely to complicate the situation.

… Bob (Grateful Diver)

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:21 am

dsteding wrote: One of the lessons on this dive was that the strict adherence to a well-communicated protocol allowed things to go smoother, and kept the stress level down in an otherwise stressful situation.

Wow! Great responses!

Thanks to each of you! Well thought out and clearly (and sensitively) communicated! (No one called me an idiot! ](*,) )

While most of this is "common sense" in keeping with our training, if we have not discussed with our buddy and/or our dive team the separation protocol with regard to how we ascend as well as how soon we ascend then it can lead to anxiety and confusion.

OK, here's some of the wisdom I am gleaning from you all so far...

The things discussed here show that the how we ascend to hook up with our missing buddy can vary according to:
-the profile of the dive,
-where you are in that dive,
-how much diving you've been doing,
-the conditions of the dive site, and
-the experience of the divers.
The important thing is that you have an agreed upon procedure before each dive with your immediate dive buddy and larger dive team. It doesn't have to be complicated, but it should fit the situation.

Once again, "Plan your dive and dive your plan" expands in meaning and scope!

Thanks again to each of you, this will add an important element to how I dive. Feel free to keep the thoughts coming!

Cera · Post by **Cera** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:48 pm

wow, so much thought!! It is really awesome all the info being shared here!!! {not being sarcastic}
I think I will just dive with people I don't mind losing, it would be easier!

{being sarcastic}

lamont · Post by **lamont** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:12 pm

I think the biggest problem with lost diver protocols is what to do after you surface, not in how long you take to surface.

Generally when I read about lost diver incidents nearly turning into accidents, it involves a diver surfacing and then not making contact and descending again. The best thing to do is to figure out how you'll respond in advance in this circumstance. For newer divers the safest thing to do is probably to remain on the surface and to wait for your buddy and/or signal other divers or shore/boat 'support' for help. What you want to avoid is getting stressed over your buddy, descending to try to 'rescue' them and winding up in a situation where you are low on gas, or on a deep dive if you bounce and shunt bubbles arterially you can get bent (and bent with a type II which includes paralysis which could lead to drowning if you are solo).

For more experienced divers who have cool heads they could do a quick plan based on remaining gas, drop down again, search and ascend doing enough stops to avoid DCS. Still you risk that you'll pop up, fail to make contact and then your buddy will pop up while you've gone back down to look for them.

This also seems to be similar to the problem of when newer divers have a rapid ascent and get fear of suffering DCS and drop down to try to "recompress", which is generally a bad idea and a particularly bad idea when it is done with a pile of adrenalin running through the divers system.

Generally if you mess up a dive and wind up on the surface the first best option is to stay there. If you think you might have DCS, get O2 and if you have symptoms call DAN and get to the chamber, don't try to treat yourself. If you are missing your buddy, stay on the surface where you can both find each other and try to contact help. If you are on the surface with a pile of adrenalin in your system because you just messed up a dive, you should really not be dropping down again unless you really know what you're doing (e.g. missed deco stop procedure on divers who have been trained).

Zen Diver · Post by **Zen Diver** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:04 pm

As an addendum to a lost buddy procedure and/or missing a safety stop or perhaps ascending a bit quickly is to make sure a very generous surface interval is utilized before doing another dive. Between N2 loading and adrenaline you need some time to come down/off gas.

-Valerie

Rob Holman · Post by **Rob Holman** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:09 pm

And if there’s a current running, perhaps shooting a bag might not be such a good idea. It could just create more separation between you and your buddy as it will provide additional drag that might pull you along in the current faster than it is pulling your buddy … so only shoot the bag if the circumstances call for it, and if doing so isn’t likely to complicate the situation.

I would tend to think if you have a surface current, all the more reason to shoot the bag. While it may create a bit more drag as well as initiate a multi tasking situation in what could already be a stressful situation, the benefit of having your buddy team see the bag as you are ripped around a point, or pulled off shore are huge.

Case in point (not a buddy separation issue, but a good example of what current can do). A buddy of mine and I were planning on doing a drift dive along Point Defiance North wall.
-We jumped out of the boat, and dropped to 10 feet.
-My buddy paused us at 10 feet to explain he had a hole in his dry suit. I asked if he wanted to abort, he said no, and we dropped down.
-We were expecting to see the bottom at about 60 feet.
-60 feet came and went.
-70 feet
-80 feet
-90 feet (Have any of you who dive in the PS ever seen that dark “shape” out in front that just HAS to be that wall/wreck/rock/reef, whatever, that you are looking for, only to swim towards it and never have it get any closer? That was the illusion we were falling prey to-probably enhanced by a little narcosis.)
-100 feet passes.
-We hit 110 and I signal to my buddy to head up as we have missed the wall.
-We start up with out shooting a bag.
-We do a 2-3 min stop at 10 feet and pop up.

Good Lord! We had jumped in the water maybe 50 feet from shore. We were now at least 3/4 of a mile off shore on the way to Sunrise beach! Total bottom time was 8 minutes. The boat was a small speck on the horizon. My buddies small leak was a one inch long slit and he is soaked to his neck with gallons of water in his suit! (why he did not abort the dive at 10 feet is another topic for discussion I suppose)

We were lucky and had an alert boat crew who, while we were not due up for at least another 45 min, was watching for us and saw our lights out in the channel. Being what was over a mile from shore by the time the boat hit us, with a massively flooded dry suit in the middle of a channel could turn ugly.

Lessons learned on that dive:
-We should have shot a bag once we hit 70 feet or so. Our boat might have seen it before we were in the channel. Had we shot a bag, we might have been more visible.
-A sharp boat crew is godsend when things go foul
-When you are moving with the current, there is no relative movement. You are moving the same speed as the water. If you are in a blue water situation with no references to bottom, you will not even know or sense you are moving.
-Love those 18 watt HID’s
-If you have a one inch slit in your dry suit, for heavens sake call the dive!

Side note, if you shoot a bag, and get hammered by current or multi tasking, simply secure the line on the reel, and stop screwing around with trying to reel it back in. Just hold the line, drop the reel and do your ascent. Pull the reel/spool up after you get to the surface.

That up line is a real security blanket. Somehow when you are all stressed out, or all alone in the water worrying about your buddy, having that nice white safe line that you know goes to the top, that you can follow and see if you are going up or down relative to the surface, and know that you may be giving your surface support team a head up that you are on the way up, goes a long way to provide relief. Or perhaps I’m just nutty that way.

That Edmonds story Bob told is the first time I really considered the scenario of doing or not doing a safety stop in given situations. I know I learned from that one.

Rob Holman · Post by **Rob Holman** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:13 pm

Another lesson learned from a different dive:

Don't shoot a 30 lb weigh belt to the surface with a lift bag and a 100 foot spool from 110 feet in current.

I can personally attest this is not a wise idea unless you want to fly up 10 feet REALLY fast and then argue with a heavy fast moving bag on the surface for the rest of your dive!

runamonk · Post by **runamonk** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:23 pm

LOL I know someone else would agree that shooting anything from 110+ feet with 100 feet of line is bad.

Rob Holman · Post by **Rob Holman** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:30 pm

Yeah, As I watched the spool unwind I started thinking. Something does not quite feel right here... Lets see, 110 feet deep... 100 foot spool.... that means 100 feet of line... lets see, 100 feet of line minus 110 feet of depth... that comes to -10. Oh crap!! Spool empty and ziiippp!

It's kinda like standing in a loop of line on a boat deck while the anchor is being dropped. You look at the anchor. You look at the line paying out. You look at your feet, you look at the anchor again and a little light starts to glimmer... Oh crap! Splash!

diver-dad · Post by **diver-dad** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 10:17 pm

Excellent discussion!

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:23 am

Rob Holman wrote: I would tend to think if you have a surface current, all the more reason to shoot the bag. While it may create a bit more drag as well as initiate a multi tasking situation in what could already be a stressful situation, the benefit of having your buddy team see the bag as you are ripped around a point, or pulled off shore are huge.

What I'm talking about, Rob, is when there's a current at the surface, but not at depth ... like we had at Mukilteo a couple weeks ago. Until we shot the bag we weren't going anywhere ... because there wasn't any current at depth. Once my bag hit the surface, we were going with it ... at first I thought I'd shot it into a passing boat or something.

In a case like that, if you shoot a bag and your "lost" buddy doesn't, you could end up surfacing a looooonnng way from each other.

Ron Sallee and I once did a dive at Possession Point Ferry where the current on the surface was ripping ... but 20 feet down there wasn't any. Under the circumstances ... diving from an anchored boat ... shooting a bag would've meant getting swept way downcurrent from where the boat was.

There are no "pat" answers to the question ... you always have to consider the circumstances ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)