Dive Bouy Manners

[Archer]

What do you think is good manners for use of the dive bouys. We were just pulling away from a bouy a few weeks ago as a charter boat was pulling up. We did not barely see each other but it got us to thinking. What shoud happen if we were on the bouy as they pulled up. I can imagine that if we had been there when they pulled up the captain would have been anxious to get morred up, since I imagine he had paying customers who expected to dive that spot.
Lots of ideas come to mind. If we were not down they could pull up and ask us if he could double up. If we were just getting geared up would it be OK for him to double up on the bouy. Obveously if we were down he would have to stand off. Lots of options to this. What do you think?

[waterdog]

That is an excellent question. As the proud owner of a new (to us) dive boat, I am very anxious to see what proper etiquette is. Maybe we can coax Don into giving us some nautical nuggets?

[CaptnJack]

Public buoys (WSA and State Parks) are first come first served. Its polite to share and most do. Easiest way is for each to tie into the buoy but with a short and long line respectively so you're not chained together. But if the capacity of the buoy will be exceeded then the later arriving boat needs to go someplace else, live boat, or anchor.

[LCF]

I would think, though, that just as it's polite to move your car forward to put your credit card back in your wallet at the gas station, if you have picked up your divers, it is polite to move off the buoy a little ways while folks are stowing gear and undressing, or whatever (assuming you are not going to dive the same site again). People often don't think about such things.

[CaptnJack]

Little communication goes a long ways too. "We'll be leaving in 20mins" type stuff.

Don't forget your dive flag - put it up when you're splashing & take it down when you're out.

[don]

Good Question and I agree with Capt Jack. We try the radio first to find out if anyone is on the boat and what their plans are. If no answer we'll probably hang out until we can talk to someone or we go to a different site. I personally don't like to tie on the same buoy as another boat, but if weather permits I may do a live boat drop/pickup if the other boat is OK with that. I don't believe we've ever dropped divers on a site that is occupied without some communication with the other group.
don

[CaptnJack]

I have a 16ft RIB which weighs about 750lbs total. So its easy to share and I don't even need fenders. Obviously bigger boats are a much different story and it gets more complicated to potentially share. I have never motored up to a buoy if the boat is unattended though. I'll either go someplace else or wait until someone surfaces and then talk to them about when they're leaving and/or if its ok to tie up next to them. The choppier it is the further I'll stand off. If it flat calm and I can see bubbles I'll approach closer (very slowly) to discuss what's going on. If you ever see my boat don't hesitate to communicate, we can work something out.
Richard

ps I have come upon untended boats with no dive flags up and my first thoughts are that someone fell overboard or had a heart attack and is dying on the floor. Only after almost pulling alongside did we see dive gear and then almost immediately after, bubbles nearby. So really, put your dive flag up.

[oldsalt]

I was a customer on a dive charter which moored to a buoy. My partner, Steve, and I enjoyed a spectacular dive: seals, sea lions, octopus, wolf eels, grunt sculpin... We hung out to use all of the air in our tank and ascended the mooring line on the buoy. Finding another dive charter boat on the buoy surprised us. It seems all of the other divers had come back and we were still down when the second boat arrived, so out of courtesy our boat moved off the buoy. We were given no time limit by the boat crew and since we were always surrounded by divers, we were unaware that we were the last ones in the water. A short swim to the live boat nearby returned us to our own boat. We still laugh about it. I agree with the others. First come first served, share if practical, and communicate as much as possible. I think Puget Sound is a long way from Molokini with regulated hours and reservations.

[sitkadiver]

I was trying to put my 100 ton to good use and give you all something out of the CFR's. But it sounds like you all have the solution already in line for a public bouy.

Just remember, the dive flag only informs other boaters there are divers in the water and you are required to show the status of the vessel. ie. restricted in it's ability to manuever or at anchor. For a boat over 12m that means red/white/red lights at night. Or diamond/ball/diamond day shapes.(for RAM)

Probably makes little difference for most personall water craft.

And as you guys already said in a different way: Use the law of prudent seamanship, when all else fails and there's confusion or questions, always defer to the safest option or just call the other boat on the radio. When we were diving up here installing outflow pipes, I had a guy with a handheld just so he could call oncoming boats and let them know we were there. Made me fell a lot more at ease knowing we had eyes on the water and weren't just relying on a bouy and flag system...

Be safe.

[Archer]

That was way more practical than I thought it would be. I was thinking much the same as you all. Thought there would be some who might think otherwise. Of course ususlly the best of the buch will be on A site like this. I thought some good sories would arise from the boatnicks doing dumb things. If I came back to my unatended boat and there was another boat tied to me or the bouy or whitin my safety radius I would be Completly sideways.
If I was with a charther and my boat was not where I left it for any reason other than safety (sea bacame rough and needed to untie to proeect the boat or the bouy) I would be less than happy also.

[Archer]

Anyone know the regulation of private mooring bouy use. I could not find a discusion of use by others that the owner in the regs. i would asume the it is on public lane in a navigable waterway the the owner has no reserved rights. Not sure I would ever push this unless I we staying in the boat.

[ArcticDiver]

What about the Alpha flag?

[no excuses]

I was on the bouy diving the Pinnacle and the Downtime pulled up and we just moved up closer and they used a longer line, had no problems and we both had a good dives. We were there first and talked with the Downtime as they pulled up and had no problems. Enjoyed talking with them and could not have had a better encounter. No reason for most encounters not be as pleasant.

[CaptnJack]

Anyone know the regulation of private mooring bouy use. I could not find a discusion of use by others that the owner in the regs. i would asume the it is on public lane in a navigable waterway the the owner has no reserved rights. Not sure I would ever push this unless I we staying in the boat.

Private is private. They paid for the materials, got any required permits, and are responsible for maintenance. The public has no rights on these at all and they are for the exclusive use of the owners and their guests.

Don't use them without asking and getting permission. Looking out of ones house or office to see divers using their private buoy creates ill will for all divers amongst the public.

[CaptnJack]

What about the Alpha flag?

What about it? Its a good idea but if you are less than 12m in length its not technically required by Colregs. And if you are tied up to a mooring buoy you aren't restricted in ability to manuver, you're anchored.

[renoun]

Anyone know the regulation of private mooring bouy use.

I have never been willing to sang a buoy if I didn't know the details of the anchoring system and its maintenance cycle.

[ArcticDiver]

What about the Alpha flag?

What about it? Its a good idea but if you are less than 12m in length its not technically required by Colregs. And if you are tied up to a mooring buoy you aren't restricted in ability to manuver, you're anchored.

I was wondering because I've heard different opinions and have seen it used on some dive boats and not others.

Not current on ocean rules as most of my boating now is on interior rivers. But it used to be the "dive flag" wasn't a regulatory flag and so some skippers may not know what it means.

[oldsalt]

My reading of rule 27, concerning the alpha flag, makes no mention of a 12 meter minimum. I don't have the rules in front of me but my memory is that the alpha flag is required when the vessel is too small to display the other signals. Am I in error?

My earlier comments about buoy courtesy applies to public buoys. I leave private buoys alone. They aren't mine and they are unkknown. A friend grabbed a buoy at Langley for the night and awoke still attached to the buoy floating in Port Susan.

[CaptnJack]

My reading of rule 27, concerning the alpha flag, makes no mention of a 12 meter minimum. I don't have the rules in front of me but my memory is that the alpha flag is required when the vessel is too small to display the other signals. Am I in error?

12m exemption refers to lights, sorry for the confusion. Realistically the only dive vessels properly displaying restricted in ability to manuver shapes or flags are those live boating in shipping channels. If you're tied to the bottom you're anchored. I haven't been on every boat in Puget Sound, but I've never seen a private boat or even a dive charter with a 1m tall rigid alpha flag visible from 360deg. Mine is pretty small but so is the boat.

A friend grabbed a buoy at Langley for the night and awoke still attached to the buoy floating in Port Susan.

Good one lol!

[ArcticDiver]

This is what I could find about the use of flags for divers. Note the red and white dive flag is not mentioned.

Washington Dive Flags
Rules for WA divers and boaters
Washington specifies the use of the alpha dive flag.




For Divers in Washington
According to Adventures in Boating, Washington, The Legal Requirements of Boating:

Persons scuba diving, skin diving and snorkeling from a vessel must display an 'Alfa' flag to mark their diving area. Between sunset and sunrise, the flag should be lighted.

Divers should stay within 200 feet of the dive flag.

From WAC 296-37-535 Predive procedures for commercial diving operations:

When diving from surfaces other than vessels in areas capable of supporting marine traffic, a rigid replica of the international code flag "A" at least one meter in height shall be displayed at the dive location in a manner which allows all-round visibility, and shall be illuminated during night diving operations.

[ArcticDiver]

I have a poor connection here so the post last night was cut off.

Seems to me regardless of rules, and they seem a bit fuzzy, a bit of consideration for others, regardless would prevent or resolve almost all conflicts.