What would I do if.....?

[CaptnJack]

In the case Richard talks about it sounds like the diver was still on the intermediate stops between 70 and 30 feet. If that's the case it seems like recovery is possible, but anyway you cut it there is going to be some "response time" and you're going to lose some depth. It seems like on a 20 or 10 foot stop reaction time may just not be fast enough to recover.

Although I guess if you're in a scenerio where you're at 20 fsw and this happens you either A.) dont have a lot of deco obligation left, or B.) You have a lot of weight (bottom stages, deco bottles, argon, scooter etc. and it's going to take more gas to get you corking and that will give you more time to respond.

It can be done at 20ft (or less), you just can't be spacing out. The kicking counteracts the gas in your wing and the positive buoyancy you have so far while you shut down the post. Being head down makes it slightly easier to turn the valve knob as the tanks slide up your body a few inches. If you get to the butt dump you can stay there indefinitely adding and dumping simultaneously. We can go to Harper sometime and try it again.

I've been at 20ft with quite a bit of deco time left. At least more than 20+mins left is alot to me. I get bent missing 5mins.

[BASSMAN]

Deep Sea Supply makes these nifty little deals called "hose hats." They fit over the ends of LP hoses and make it super easy to disconnect, even in big thick gloves. And they're cheap. I have them on my wing and drysuit connects, and all the whips on my bailout bottles.

Nice!
I'm going to get some!

[kitsapdiver]

We can go to Harper sometime and try it again.

I'll take you up on that sometime. Let me know when works for you!

[crowplus]

This an odd link, but it takes you to a paper (PDF) on ascent rates. Thought it pertained to the discussion. Someone else may be able to better format the link.

DAN Ascent Profile article:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1lKKKJQIaw

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 1lKKKJQIaw

[Mortuus]

So...

What would you do if your buddy needed gas?
What would you do if you bit through your mouthpiece?
What would you do if the exhaust valve on your reg let water into your mouth?
What would you do if your mouthpiece fell off?
What would you do if your LP inflator jammed on?
What would you do if your LP inflator fell off?
What would you do if (one of) your wing/BCD dumps unscrewed and came off?
What would you do if you felt panic building at depth?
What would you do if you had an emergency at depth under the water taxi lane in cove 2?
What would you do if you were at 100 feet in an Al80 with 1000 psi in the tank? ....and under the water taxi lane?
What would you do if your octo/backup was free flowing and you didn't notice it?
What would you do if your buddy kicked your mask off?
What would you do if your buddy kicked your reg out of your mouth?
What would you do if you turned around and all you could see of your buddies was a huge silt cloud?
What would you do if you drained your main tank and your pony bottle reg had been free flowing the whole dive?
What would you do if you drained your main tank and your pony bottle reg was trapped behind you and could not be deployed?
What would you do if you drained your main tank and your pony bottle had been leaking out the tank neck for the past week and you didn't know how much pressure it had in it?
What would you do if your drysuit seemed to be dumping poorly?
What do you do to get gas out of the feet of your drysuit?
What if you are low on gas and light and do not want to cork, how do you get as much gas as possible out of all your buoyancy devices?
What would you do if you put on a new undergarment without changing your weighting and started to cork from 70 feet?

And for bonus points, how would you prevent a lot of these problems before getting into the water?

Apologies in advance for an incredibly disjointed post......

...I am a little late to the party on this thread it would seem, but I am glad I eventually found it. This thread is very very good. And the discussion is civil (at least on the first 3 pages. I havent read further yet). So +1 to everyone for that!

Now as a relatively new diver (80 dives) my .02 might not mean much, but what the hell. Ill post anyways. I really liked the above post and wanted to respond.
I tend to go over scenarios such as those all the time. When im sitting at my desk, in the shower, driving, eating, whenever. I think its good to think about them frequently to make sure that you know how to handle them.
Now each of those scenarios in themselves are not the most problematic things in the world. In fact I had an answer off hand for every single pne of them (other people already gave answers I saw, so no need to double up). However it seems to me that individual problems arent generally what kill people. Well, im sure any of those problems arent the best thing for a new, inexperienced, or rusty diver, but any experienced diver should be able to handle any of those without a problem.
The real problems seem to arise from more than one of these problems arising. I think a good challenge would be "Pick two or three of the following and figure out how to safely solve them". Obviously the probability that problems just instantly crop up at the same time is extremely low, but we are all familiar with the snowball effect. Which is what I am really getting at with this post.

So what would you do if you are:
A) Lost in low vis at 90-100 ft. Your buddy is a "fast" diver and you are a "slow" diver, and he just jetted away, separating the two of you.
B) Uh-oh, its a freeflow!
C) The freeflow pushes your mask off

Sadly, this scenario isnt too implausible. Its solvable though, definitely. I wasnt trying to come up with a ridiculous scenario that wouldnt ever happen. But these 3 things certainly are a much greater challenge to deal with than just one.

Im not even really expecting an answer to that scenario, because answering it isnt the point im trying to make, and I dont wanna spark a debate over that part of the post.

tl;dr version: Snowball effect is harder to deal with than individual problems, and divers should be aware of this, not only to stop the snowball in its tracks, but so they can deal with the snowball if and when it hits. Yeah, I think thats what im trying to say xD

And to make my post seem more lighthearted, I present you all with numerous smilies

[lamont]

one problem with that is you can wind up in the weeds of the implausible day when you have not only a free flowing reg, a knocked off mask and a lost fin, but you're locked in a death struggle with a hungry GPO and your buddy is being nommed on by a shark and you can't reach the knife strapped to your leg.... uh oh...

the other thing is that a lot of it is addressed by prevention, or redundancy, or buddy choice:

- i don't dive with divers who just 'jet off' particularly not in bad viz at 100 feet
- i get my regs serviced by a technician so that i've never had a serious free flow in 650+ or something dives
- i typically have redundancy with doubles if i'm at 100 feet, and only dive singles at those depths with solid buddies
- my head is large enough to have its own gravitational field and i have yet to have a mask knocked off of it at depth

that makes the whole scenario implausible to me, but not implausible for any given diver on any given dive.

[Mortuus]

Right. Im not saying its plausible for every diver, but it certainly is for some. I had Scenario A happen to me very recently. I didnt know what type of a diver he was, so I had no idea he would pull that stunt at 80 ft. The other two can be solved by being adept at switching air sources, or as you said, keeping up to date on services. Carrying a spare mask is also a good thing.
But I didnt make that post to get bogged down in that situation. In fact, I specifically said not to. It was the snowball effect I was attempting to point out.

[lamont]

right but in addressing the snowball effect the biggest way to deal with it is simply prevention and not getting into those situations in the first place...

there's the concept of the incident pit which is very similar, and as you have more and more issues happen on a dive you start to spiral closer into the center of the incident pit. and (very much like my head) it has a gravitational field and the tighter you spiral around it, the harder it is to get out. once you start dealing with the CO2 and panic spiral at depth then its really getting too late...

the biggest issue there is to just get good at avoiding the pit. a huge part of that is prevention is on the surface. so, don't do 80 foot dives with buddies that you don't know, and if there's any question about a buddy's attitude assume that you are going to have to self-rescue basically solo (possibly while rescuing them) and plan appropriately. start the defensive posture on the surface.

another aspect of that is to fix problems as they occur underwater rather than letting them snowball up. if you have created a gear CF for yourself stop and figure it out and sort thing, then move on. otherwise you may find that now you've got the gear CF, plus you've got your mask off, or whatever -- now the gear gets hooked on something and you wind up entangled -- that creates buddy separation, etc, etc... and it starts to spiral closer. instead sort the gear out and fix the problem quickly. then when your buddy kicks you in the face, you can deal with that mask flooding issue when you're 'whole' rather than when your situation is already partially impaired.

[ljjames]

I have not had a free flow knock a mask off, but maybe i've just been lucky.

The most likely way to loose the mask and get free flow at same time is get kicked in the face by the jetting off diver. Mask gets either dislodged and flooded (more likely) or possibly removed (I have still never had this actually happen), regulator gets kicked out of mouth, starts to free flow, chaos and mayhem ensue.

Solution? Buddy selection/positioning and awareness of big flippers coming at your face. Pay attention underwater. I get kicked all the time because I seem to have a proclivity for diving with new-ish divers at times. Just hold my mask and reg for the split second that I'm in harms way.

[lamont]

not only just new divers... occasionally, also, if you're diving with someone with a big video system they are also less maneuverable and may tend to turn towards something to get the shot and kick you in the face... awareness of what the other diver is doing and what they're likely to turn to shoot can help you anticipate this and get your hands in front of your face to protect your mask and reg...

[ljjames]

LOL!

Or your scooter buddy doing a flyby clips you with a fin-tip or gets a bit close with the prop wash and you get bonked by your own camera system

The take home from all the scenarios is "global awareness", and having the bandwidth available (because you are comfortable in the water, in your kit, and on the dive you are doing) to 'see' whats coming down the pike before it ever becomes an issue

not only just new divers... occasionally, also, if you're diving with someone with a big video system they are also less maneuverable and may tend to turn towards something to get the shot and kick you in the face... awareness of what the other diver is doing and what they're likely to turn to shoot can help you anticipate this and get your hands in front of your face to protect your mask and reg...

[lamont]

LOL!

Or your scooter buddy doing a flyby clips you with a fin-tip or gets a bit close with the prop wash and you get bonked by your own camera system

why i do do declare, i have never seen or witnessed such outrageous behavior on a scooter in mah life...

[CaptnJack]

So what would you do if you are:
A) Lost in low vis at 90-100 ft. Your buddy is a "fast" diver and you are a "slow" diver, and he just jetted away, separating the two of you.
B) Uh-oh, its a freeflow!
C) The freeflow pushes your mask off

Put mask back on
Still freeflowing? ascent at 30fpm
Freeflow stopped? check gas and if adequate stop and search with your light for 1 min then ascend at 30fpm

If your mask is completely off and lost on the bottom and you don't find it immediately then just ascend at what feels reasonable, faster being better than slow.

And what Lamont and Laura said, prevention...

[fnerg]

A) Lost in low vis at 90-100 ft. Your buddy is a "fast" diver and you are a "slow" diver, and he just jetted away, separating the two of you.
B) Uh-oh, its a freeflow!
C) The freeflow pushes your mask off

C) Redundant mask
B) Redundant air supply
A) Redundant buddy. I keep a dehydrated buddy in a pocket in my BCD. Just pull the cord, expose to seawater, and PRESTO! It even buys the drinks after the dive!

[Grateful Diver]

I created this little flow chart yesterday that might help answer the question "What would I do if .... ?



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Norris]

I created this little flow chart yesterday that might help answer the question "What would I do if .... ?



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Like

[Joshua Smith]

I created this little flow chart yesterday that might help answer the question "What would I do if .... ?



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

BIG LIKE. Tattoo worthy.

[spatman]

I created this little flow chart yesterday that might help answer the question "What would I do if .... ?



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Awesome, Bob.

[sitkadiver]

If I was doing adive job in the harbor and accidentally kicked my tank, backpack and AGA into the drink, I would practice my no-mask free diving skills. :angry:



Amazing how quickly the Sunflower stars swarm anything new on the bottom. The little one on the left put up a helluva a fight!

[sitkadiver]

I created this little flow chart yesterday that might help answer the question "What would I do if .... ?



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Awesome Bob!! If you make this into a T-shirt, I want one.