Northwest Dive Club

I've not had a lot of luck talking with people at shops. So maybe my fellow divers can provide some input! I'm considering upgrading from my G10... Right now I'm thinking of a Nikon D7100 system. But I would love for someone who actually has experience with both compact cameras as well as DSLRs to help me understand what the differences are in the real world. I can ask more specific questions, but I'll leave it open-ended for now. I'd just love input. One concern I do have is not having a screen on the DSLR to see what I'm shooting (unless I spend another $1100 on top of the already over-the-top price tag).

Sorry, I mean mirrorless. DSLR versus mirrorless.

Hi
I don't have knowledge of those specific cameras, others here likely will. One thing I can say is I don't have a concern not having a live view on my dslr. Thought I would before I got it, but I don't. I'd rather have faster response and longer battery life.

Jen, There is no doubt that a DSLR is capable of much better photo quality but this comes with a steep learning curve, lots of dollars and a huge hunk of gear to haul around. Your G-10 is a very good camera (seems I have seen it lately) and capable of some pretty good output. With a DSLR you have the advantage of interchangeable lenses but this can be a drawback as well. Nothing worse than seeing a six gill when you have the macro lens on. If you are talking something like the Olympus ES cams there are a lot of peeps here who have them and seem happy. Not having an LCD would be a game breaker for me. As far as I am concerned that is a huge step backwards. Why would you pay all that money for a camera that is not complete?

Just my 2 PSI

Jen -

I don't have direct experience, but the mirrorless look like a good alternative to the DSLR and the package is a lot smaller. I found this review interesting: http://www.uwphotographyguide.com/sony-rx100-review

I was on a trip last Feb and one of the people is a published DSLR guy.He recommended that I consider a mirrorless. I am shooting a compact now, a Canon S100, which is not as good as your G10.

I like a lot of others moved from a compact (G9 - flooded) to the Olympus PEN1 4/3, that was on special awhile back Optical Ocean had a similar sale. I also started using a strobe. Noticeable increase in quality, plus I like it better.
There's a thread in the forum, about 5 pages, may be worth looking over.

There is always something new in the camera field, It's called planned obsolescence. The same with computers and cell phones. It's good marketing every few months you add something new and tell everyone they can't live without it. Keeps the money rolling in and the company thriving. Sensor size is the defining factor in digital cameras and these new bigger sizes are a big boost over standard ccd cams but how bad do you need it? Have you reached the point were you have exceeded the cameras range? A new camera will not make you a better photographer. Granted the big chip cameras will take better pictures than the smaller ccd's but will it make your photos better?

Anyway the review on that Sony RX100 sounds pretty impressive but the case selection is pretty pricy. The Ikelight housing for it is HUGE and bulky and still not cheap. I would seriously consider the middle ground, the mirrorless 4 thirds cameras You might consider one of the Olympus 4/3 cameras as you might get a better deal. I'd say talk to Opticle ocean sales and see what they have to say. They are very knowledgeable and can give you a lot of good info. At least now there is middle ground to consider between the P & S and the DSLR's. DSLR's really raise the bar but really blow you budget also. The case alone can cost more than a good mid range rig and they are huge bulky and very complicated. Remember with a DSLR the basic rig is only a small part of the cost. Are you really ready to blow over 5 grand on a camera? You can easily spend a couple of grand on ports and lenses alone.

It's also a slippery slope depending on what you want to shoot (I know....you shoot all over, everything).
Compacts do well with more light and can inherently focus close up due to the sensor size.
As the sensor gets larger, the focusing range is adversely impacted, but you can crop much better.
The lens, as always, is a factor in how much light is let in.
When you go to the DSLR's many lens ($$$) start staring at you. When I had an SLR the stock 55mm lens almost always stayed at home. I think DSLR's may be similar. The lens alone is more than a compact.

Thanks for the replies. After much agonizing, er, researching, today I'm leaning towards the Olympus OM-D E-M5. It has most things I am looking for... it's a lot more expensive than the Sony RX100, which is what I was leaning towards yesterday till I realized the manual controls I'd give up. I do want total manual control. The Olympus is expensive, but less so than a DSLR and hopefully a tad easier to travel with.

We'll see what I think when I wake up tomorrow! But all the reading I've done, that OM-D E-M5 looks pretty dang good (and a sizeable investment). It's kind of like when I was shopping for cars 10 years ago... I knew what I wanted but it didn't exist, and then, poof, they started selling the Honda Element. Sold!

Hope you love the camera!

By the way, I see on your profile you dive with John Dorsett. I think we dove together a _long_ time ago (10 years ago?) together with John at Edmonds dry dock!

-Eric

scubajen wrote:Thanks for the replies. After much agonizing, er, researching, today I'm leaning towards the Olympus OM-D E-M5. It has most things I am looking for... it's a lot more expensive than the Sony RX100, which is what I was leaning towards yesterday till I realized the manual controls I'd give up. I do want total manual control. The Olympus is expensive, but less so than a DSLR and hopefully a tad easier to travel with.

We'll see what I think when I wake up tomorrow! But all the reading I've done, that OM-D E-M5 looks pretty dang good (and a sizeable investment). It's kind of like when I was shopping for cars 10 years ago... I knew what I wanted but it didn't exist, and then, poof, they started selling the Honda Element. Sold!

That looks like a nice camera. All the reviews are quite positive.

The one thing I'd check on before purchasing this is the availability of lens options for it. What you need is a moderate macro lens with a flat port for closeup critter shots and a super wide angle with a dome port for reef pictures. With SLR cameras (whether they be FX DX or Micro 4/3 format) you're not diving with a camera you're diving with a lens. You sacrifice some focal length flexibility options for better image quality.

Dan

dphershman wrote:

scubajen wrote:Thanks for the replies. After much agonizing, er, researching, today I'm leaning towards the Olympus OM-D E-M5. It has most things I am looking for... it's a lot more expensive than the Sony RX100, which is what I was leaning towards yesterday till I realized the manual controls I'd give up. I do want total manual control. The Olympus is expensive, but less so than a DSLR and hopefully a tad easier to travel with.

We'll see what I think when I wake up tomorrow! But all the reading I've done, that OM-D E-M5 looks pretty dang good (and a sizeable investment). It's kind of like when I was shopping for cars 10 years ago... I knew what I wanted but it didn't exist, and then, poof, they started selling the Honda Element. Sold!

That looks like a nice camera. All the reviews are quite positive.

The one thing I'd check on before purchasing this is the availability of lens options for it. What you need is a moderate macro lens with a flat port for closeup critter shots and a super wide angle with a dome port for reef pictures. With SLR cameras (whether they be FX DX or Micro 4/3 format) you're not diving with a camera you're diving with a lens. You sacrifice some focal length flexibility options for better image quality.

Dan

Olympus 60mm macro and Panny 9-18 zoom. Both can be used behind the standard flat port or the Zen Pen WA 100 semi dome port.....

Jen -- I've become a huge fan of the "evil" cameras (electronic viewfinder, interchangeable lenses). I was an early adopter of the Oly E-PL1 system and am still a fan. I'll upgrade some time but when, who knows (perhaps when one gets flooded?). As with a DSLR, it is the glass that's most important when you start "upgrading." Eventually I'll get the 9-18 W.A. lens and the 60 mm macro -- but for now, I'm just happy with the kit lens.

The reality is that even my old system with the old kit lens is much better than I am.

EVIL cams have come a very long way and are now probably the sweet spot as far as quality vs. size/price. The important question you have to ask is "what does it take to satisfy me?" If you want to take some great underwater photos and desire simplicity and practicality, then the EVIL is the way to go (or even the Rx100 -- it's a stellar little camera, and it does actually have full manual and RAW capabilities built in). These cameras will get you to 95% of the image quality of a dSLR at a fraction of the size, complexity, and cost.

If, however, you are the kind of person who needs to have that one killer image, or you never want to be limited by equipment, then the dSLR is the way to go. Just keep in mind the price is ridiculous, the camera takes an entire checked bag when you travel (sometimes 2), and it takes 6 months of regular diving/shooting to learn the beast even superficially.

Well said Lundy.

You might want to consider the Olympus E-PL5 Mirrorless Digital Camera with 14-42mm f/3.5 II Lens and E-PL5 Underwater Camera Housing PT-EP10 The camera runs $600 and the case $750 less. That's than a housing alone for a DSLR. and much smaller.

After reading as many reviews as i could find, looking at level of control, lens options, etc, i have purchased the Olympus OM-D E-M5. It seems the best choice given what i want to be able to do. Can't wait to try it out!

I will be getting the Nauticam housing. I will start with the 12-50mm and go from there. And I will get the Panasonic fisheye before long.

Eric - yes, i totally remember diving with you all those years ago at Edmonds.

As always, thanks everyone for the input!

What a great choice! I have looked at that but went with the E-PL5 because of the price difference Must be nice to have all the extra dough!

My new roommate moves in TODAY! Why am I getting a roommate after living alone for so many years? Um... this camera might have something to do with it.

Dusty2 wrote:What a great choice! I have looked at that but went with the E-PL5 because of the price difference Must be nice to have all the extra dough!

The E-PL5 has the same sensor as the OM-D. The only noticeable difference will be with video because of the better image stabilization.....