Northwest Dive Club

Took this picture at Point Whitney on Hood Canal. There were a couple of them, but very shy. They were also fairly small, maybe 8 inches or so.

This is the best picture I got, and it isn't very good.

I am leaning towards Olive Rockfish Sebastes serranoides, but am open to other leanings.



Photo is cropped for ease of ID.

Well, I think it's a Sebastes ...




Answer cropped for ease of typing.

My guess would be Yellowtail Rockfish. I don't think Olive Rockfish are generally found this far north (but I could be wrong).

I am changing my leanings to Yellowtail Rockfish Sebastes flavidus as well. Guess in my rush to have spotted a new species (for me) I failed to look at the range. It sure still looks like an olive to me (wishful thinking maybe)

I would go with Yellowtail too. Georgia and I saw those when we did Pt Whitney a few weeks back (and Olive's are California range, aren't they?)

-Valerie

Olives are indeed California range and I think range is about the only way to really tell them apart-I think that's what Janna told me.

WylerBear wrote:Olives are indeed California range and I think range is about the only way to really tell them apart-I think that's what Janna told me.

Great find!

We have them both down here, i've seen them side by side and you can tell the difference (when, as in my case, it was pointed out to me).

The coloration was notably different and i believe the number of dorsal blotching and mottling was different.

Scott

FWIW coach, if range wasn't an issue i would agree with your initial idea, it does look less yellowtaily than olivy...

Tim, what book are you basing your hopeful ID of an Olive out of?

(ditto what everyone's said so far - they don't come this far north, and there are slight differences)

- Janna

nwscubamom wrote:Tim, what book are you basing your hopeful ID of an Olive out of?

(ditto what everyone's said so far - they don't come this far north, and there are slight differences)

- Janna

My initial thought when I saw them underwater was Olive. In fact, Lowell was the first to spot them, he signaled me, I took the photo. As soon as we hit the surface, he asked what I thought they were and I immediately said Olive.

Then we get home, and in my quest to prove myself right, I looked in Humann's Coastal Fish book and there it was, the olive with the several pale spots below the dorsal fin. I have seen yellowtails and these just didn't look yellow enough and so, without looking more closely, I went with Olive.

Now, that I am looking more, Lamb and Edgell's Coastal Fishes book has a picture of a very dark looking yellowtail. When I compare my picture to my memory, the picture is much lighter than I remember them being.

Janna has suggested before to make sure you look in several different books before making a final ID. I would suggest just posting here and then you can have lots of discussion about your IDs as well.

The blotchy spots below the dorsal fin are typical of both the Yellowtail and the Olive - it would be lovely if that was the difference!

Remember, the Yellowtail is extremely closely related to the Black Rockfish - which has the same light spots surrounded by a darker area below the dorsal fin. Note the body shape, pouty lip, etc. and you'll see they're very very close.

I highly suggest getting yourself a copy of Milton Love's Rockfishes of the Northeast Pacific. Many, many views of adult AND Juvenile fishes.

- Janna

nwscubamom wrote:The blotchy spots below the dorsal fin are typical of both the Yellowtail and the Olive - it would be lovely if that was the difference!

Remember, the Yellowtail is extremely closely related to the Black Rockfish - which has the same light spots surrounded by a darker area below the dorsal fin. Note the body shape, pouty lip, etc. and you'll see they're very very close.

I highly suggest getting yourself a copy of Milton Love's Rockfishes of the Northeast Pacific. Many, many views of adult AND Juvenile fishes.

- Janna

Thanks for the suggestion on the book, Janna, but, I already have that one.

So, oh master of IDing, what is your final verdict? Are you suggesting that it is not even a yellowtail but possibly a black?

Heavens no! Just letting you know that the Olive is not the only Rockfish that has the blotchy spots below the dorsal fin - that the Yellowtail and the Black also share that marking.

- Janna

Another common mistake in IDing fish is to go too much by color. Janna I know you have made this point many times and a trip to the Seattle Aquarium will drive home that point. There are many different shades of Canary Rockfish in the dome from orange to very pale yellow almost creme.

Hey Tim,

since i just figured out that i'm in the only common range of these two fish, i'm probably one of few that has a photo of them side by side.

My buddy pointed this out to me a while back and i took this photo, he said the only absolute diagnostic ID is probably head spines and fin rays... which in my experience are not that fun.

Anyway, you'll notice that the olive (bottom) has more defined blotches toward the back and they take on an olive color... pink edging can be seen on the yellowtail (top)

The best id difference from a distance is head shape, the yellowtail has a tough, big shouldered look, while the olive is sleek and torpedoish.

There are lots of differences, these were the ones i remember from my buddy rattling off the top of his head, none seemed great for those who haven't id'd lots of rockfish :( the good news is that the range is well defined.

after that info about the shoulders, i really see that yours is a yellowtail.

Scott

Scott, thanks for the info. It would be hard to tell them apart if they appeared in our murky waters together. I see why Tim would think Olive.

Scott, the side-by-side is great! (although it's a dead fish shot!) Can't you get them to pose side-by-side underwater?

The biggest difference to me is the body shape. The Yellowtail is SOOOO much like the Black in shape, with a much taller body, steeper snout and forehead, major jutting pouty lower lip. The Olive is, as you say, much more 'torpedo' shaped.

Great comparison! I saw both when I was in Monterey on a field survey, and it's hard to make a good positive ID underwater.

And then, to top it all off, Juveniles and teenogre Rockfish have slightly different colorings/markings than the adults. That's always fun!

- Janna

It's definately a goldfish.