missing diver?

[Joshua Smith]

Yep. And we're not like other boards. It's just, quite simply, our policy.

[CaptnJack]

Other boards segregate their memorials from their accident discussions to avoid that.

google and other search engines are undiscerning in these differences.

People can express there condolences one place, and discuss how to keep other people from dying on another.

This tragedy will probably repeat itself and everyone who wishes to stifle decent, evenhanded, even respectful discussion of it out of "respect for the deceased" and her family should remember that. There are currently living people who will probably repeat whatever mistakes which were made. And for a 19yo to die on a 45ft dive in a low current, low hazard area there probably were several. And we'll never know EXACTLY what they are, only the deceased knows. And even if a discussion of a fatality roams outside of what actually happened and touches on our own personal lessons learned I am baffled why that is somehow hurtful to survivors. When I have lost family members in tragedies, sometimes horrific, I wanted to know why and how others could avoid the same mistakes. But hey you're right, getting along with soothing words of condolance is of utmost importance.

[spatman]

Other boards segregate their memorials from their accident discussions to avoid that.

google and other search engines are undiscerning in these differences.

People can express there condolences one place, and discuss how to keep other people from dying on another.

This tragedy will probably repeat itself and everyone who wishes to stifle decent, evenhanded, even respectful discussion of it out of "respect for the deceased" and her family should remember that. There are currently living people who will probably repeat whatever mistakes which were made. And for a 19yo to die on a 45ft dive in a low current, low hazard area there probably were several. And we'll never know EXACTLY what they are, only the deceased knows. And even if a discussion of a fatality roams outside of what actually happened and touches on our own personal lessons learned I am baffled why that is somehow hurtful to survivors. When I have lost family members in tragedies, sometimes horrific, I wanted to know why and how others could avoid the same mistakes. But hey you're right, getting along with soothing words of condolance is of utmost importance.

i don't understand why you quoted my post for your retort. i'm not disputing any of what you said, nor am i taking any sides in this discussion. all i'm pointing out is that having separate forums will most likely not reduce the chances of someone stumbling upon this type of discussion, since most "stumbling" is done via an internet search.

[Joshua Smith]

Other boards segregate their memorials from their accident discussions to avoid that.

google and other search engines are undiscerning in these differences.

People can express there condolences one place, and discuss how to keep other people from dying on another.

This tragedy will probably repeat itself and everyone who wishes to stifle decent, evenhanded, even respectful discussion of it out of "respect for the deceased" and her family should remember that. There are currently living people who will probably repeat whatever mistakes which were made. And for a 19yo to die on a 45ft dive in a low current, low hazard area there probably were several. And we'll never know EXACTLY what they are, only the deceased knows. And even if a discussion of a fatality roams outside of what actually happened and touches on our own personal lessons learned I am baffled why that is somehow hurtful to survivors. When I have lost family members in tragedies, sometimes horrific, I wanted to know why and how others could avoid the same mistakes. But hey you're right, getting along with soothing words of condolance is of utmost importance.

I think you are missing the point. I will make a point of writing and pinning up a very clear, specific policy regarding speculation in threads that are about diving deaths, so that we don't have to define it again and again, every single time. If you look back at the beginning of this thread, the deceased was diving an al80 to 120 feet, seperated at depth, and 3 pages later, she's doing a 45 fsw profile and in touch contact w/her buddy at the SS, rescuers in the water w/in minutes of disappearance. Sounds like 2 different incidents to me. Railing against training agencies, dive buddys, and the dive industry as a whole, is actually fine- outside of this particular thread. Discussing concrete details of this case is OK, too, as long as the evangelical, hysterical tone that I have seen many times before on other boards is ommited. I don't think it's a particularly draconian policy, but if anyone can show me a correlation between treating threads dealing with a diving death like this, and an increase in the number of local fatalities, I'll reverse it, and we'll see if letting people write whatever the heck they want about anyone who dies correlates to less local fatalities. If this actually happens, I will post a long, detailed apology, and begin a process of making amends to the survivors of the divers that I inadvertantly killed with my fascist editorial slant.

[dwashbur]

If it was anything like what's around mukilteo right now, it wouldn't take that long, seconds is all it takes to lose someone. Your buddy could be almost within reach and you wouldn't know it, even with 10watt HID's.

This is why I was puzzled about them being "visible" from the boat during their SS. I've been reading that viz in the sound is pretty bad right now, but the comment made it sound as though viz was at least 15' because someone could actually see them that deep from the boat. That's the part of the report that I don't understand.

[Phineas Gage]

I will make a point of writing and pinning up a very clear, specific policy regarding speculation in threads that are about diving deaths, so that we don't have to define it again and again, every single time. If you look back at the beginning of this thread, the deceased was diving an al80 to 120 feet, seperated at depth, and 3 pages later, she's doing a 45 fsw profile and in touch contact w/her buddy at the SS, rescuers in the water w/in minutes of disappearance. Sounds like 2 different incidents to me. Railing against training agencies, dive buddys, and the dive industry as a whole, is actually fine- outside of this particular thread. Discussing concrete details of this case is OK, too, as long as the evangelical, hysterical tone that I have seen many times before on other boards is ommited. I don't think it's a particularly draconian policy, but if anyone can show me a correlation between treating threads dealing with a diving death like this, and an increase in the number of local fatalities, I'll reverse it, and we'll see if letting people write whatever the heck they want about anyone who dies correlates to less local fatalities. If this actually happens, I will post a long, detailed apology, and begin a process of making amends to the survivors of the divers that I inadvertantly killed with my fascist editorial slant.

[Fishstiq]

I will make a point of writing and pinning up a very clear, specific policy regarding speculation in threads that are about diving deaths, so that we don't have to define it again and again, every single time. If you look back at the beginning of this thread, the deceased was diving an al80 to 120 feet, seperated at depth, and 3 pages later, she's doing a 45 fsw profile and in touch contact w/her buddy at the SS, rescuers in the water w/in minutes of disappearance. Sounds like 2 different incidents to me. Railing against training agencies, dive buddys, and the dive industry as a whole, is actually fine- outside of this particular thread. Discussing concrete details of this case is OK, too, as long as the evangelical, hysterical tone that I have seen many times before on other boards is ommited. I don't think it's a particularly draconian policy, but if anyone can show me a correlation between treating threads dealing with a diving death like this, and an increase in the number of local fatalities, I'll reverse it, and we'll see if letting people write whatever the heck they want about anyone who dies correlates to less local fatalities. If this actually happens, I will post a long, detailed apology, and begin a process of making amends to the survivors of the divers that I inadvertantly killed with my fascist editorial slant.

I second that.

When I have lost family members in tragedies, sometimes horrific, I wanted to know why and how others could avoid the same mistakes. But hey you're right, getting along with soothing words of condolance is of utmost importance.

Dude, are you serious? A family (and many friends, I'm sure) has just unexpectedly lost this 19 year old girl, she hasn't even been recovered yet (if she ever is), and you think the family is sitting around going "Gee, I hope others learn from this..." How about giving the family a respectfull mmourning period before you dissect their deceased child's every mistake and decide who you think should be blamed?

My prayers (that's right, PRAYERS) and deepest sympathies go out to the family of the victim of this tragedy.

I have been away from the board for a while due to work, and when I finally get a few minutes to sit down and enjoy it this is what I find... Nailer and John, if my post is innapropriate, feel free to delete/lock/edit it as you see fit.

[Joshua Smith]

My prayers (that's right, PRAYERS) and deepest sympathies go out to the family of the victim of this tragedy.

I have been away from the board for a while due to work, and when I finally get a few minutes to sit down and enjoy it this is what I find... Nailer and John, if my post is innapropriate, feel free to delete/lock/edit it as you see fit.

No, not innapropriate at all. Thanks to everyone else who PM'ed me about this, as well.

If anyone close to the unfortunate diver is reading this: We're terribly sorry for your loss. For everyone else: Dive safe. There are a lot of people here on this board who will be more than happy to help you learn how to make it back alive, every time. Seek more training, ask questions, and don't ever get in the water if you aren't 100% confident that you know you can handle it. We can't breathe underwater without top-notch equipment and training, and here in the Pacific Northwest, with murky, cold water, and wicked currents, the stakes are just that much higher.

[BASSMAN]

Wow!
This was a long read from the beginning. I always read every detail just to see details as they develope. This board has always been respectfull and educational during these discussions.

My heart goes out to the friends and family of this girl. And my parayer is that all who have been afected by this incident big or small, can see the good and the bad in it and move on.

I'm not totally sure what I have learned from this particular thread but thanks NWDC for showing you care deeply no matter which way you each feel about this incident.

[LCF]

Does anybody else feel like part of the reason these threads get so heated is because these stories strike so close to home? If I see a headline, "Diver lost in Florida Keys," I'll read the article for whatever I can learn from it, but my heart doesn't jump and I don't get a lump in my throat until I read the description and I'm sure it isn't someone I know. Somehow, dying while scuba diving seems like a pretty remote possibility until it happens to someone diving in a site I frequent -- then it seems somehow more real and more horrible. I suspect I'm not alone in this.

[lamont]

No, not innapropriate at all. Thanks to everyone else who PM'ed me about this, as well.

I'd also like to thank everyone that PM'd me about this as well.

[Pez7378]

No, not innapropriate at all. Thanks to everyone else who PM'ed me about this, as well.

I'd also like to thank everyone that PM'd me about this as well.

No problem dude. I learned something from it.

[nwbobber]

This link has some background on the diver, and her family. Tragic story, she will be missed.
http://www.wallawalla.edu/about-wwu/new ... 20ee3705d8