dive shops

[bigsky]

i understand there is a lot of divers in the area and
there will always be bad experiences when you have large numbers of people doing anything
but i take it to heart when i hear of a dive shop doing something off kilter
when i read stuff like this
http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5400

or this
http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php ... h+d#p61712

i think someone is trying to damage my hobby and it upsets me
but when it happens to me it is really not a good thing
i only let a few shops fill my tanks, i really avoid out of town and boat fills
i bought extra tanks so i could have my fills done my way
adventures down under, northwest sport diver, and starfish diving are pretty much it for me
other shops may be great, but i do not know they are great
i found myself in a corner this past weekend and had to get an emergency fill
air top of a mix tank, no big deal so i went to the nearest shop that was still open
next day i go diving with that tank and the air is bad
real bad
tastes like paint
instant head ache, sick feeling, light headed, dive cancelled
all the way to canada, customs, a day of vacation shipwreck dive
all trashed over bad air
how does this happen? a compressor goes out is one thing, but chemicals in your gas?
i went in to the shop to let them know
i did not even ask for the money back on the fill (twenty bucks to top off doubles with o2 quality air)
dive shop asks to sample the air and can find nothing wrong with it 'tastes fine to me'
so i ask another employee of the shop to taste it, she tastes it smacks her lips and spits in
the nearby garbage can ' it is ok, but i do not like the taste of helium'
i did not say anything, but asked a nearby customer to sniff it and give an opinion
as a third party
one whiff and she backed away, 'smells like a really bad helium balloon'
i look at the original 'tastes fine to me guy' and ask since when does helium have a taste?
instant run around, 'well there is nothing we can do, we do not know what happended to the tank
after it left, have a nice day'
i then asked him if the tank was fine, why not dive with it, i will go get my gear, and he can use that tank
no no, can't do that he does not like doubles
what is more central to a dive shop than fills? if there is even a hint of a problem, that should be job number one
and to try to harm a customer, how about an offer to at least clean the tank?
or even show a smidgen of concern?

[60south]

I think a lot of serious divers end up filling their own because of that sort of thing. I'm not there yet, but starting to think about it after several bad experiences, including actual compressor oil in the tank. Sickening.

[Maverick]

my worst experience was also oil left on the valve, and then after a vis found a small pool of it accumulated at the bottom of the tank. so much for a clean nitrox fill. sorry to hear about that Bigsky. Yeah i never had a bad fill at NWSD only slow fills due to low gas quantity because everyone trusts them. better clean that tank.

[DiverDown]

Same thing happend to me with a shop Ive spent thousands at. New mgmt took over and changed the bank system. Had my tanks filled, and the air was bad. It smelled like plastic, had the tanks cleaned. Got a bill for 60 bucks for two tanks. To me it was a huge slap in the face. I never paid the bill grabbed my tanks left the shop told them I wont be back.

[bigsky]

... better clean that tank.

i am draining the tanks now, will clean in the a.m.
then i need to go thru the regs and make sure they are clean
and my lungs ache (son of a BITCH!!!)
so it is off to the doctors

girlfriend is mad at me
"you are cleaning your gear, and then calling the doctor?"
so the dive shop got my $20
but lost my business, and everyone i can tell business
and i am looking for a voodoo doll

[Pez7378]

Some dive shop mishaps are forgiveable. Some are not. BAD AIR IS NOT forgiveable.

LDS's all over the region are complaining about internet sales hurting their bottom line. I'm sure it's not easy to run a business in this day and age, but come on folks! There are several things that the LDS has over the Internet:

1) AIR FILLS, NITROX, TRIMIX, ARGON
2) QUALITY TRAINING (quality not the cookie cutter version)
3) THE ABILITY TO SEE, TOUCH AND TRY OUT THE GEAR YOU BET YOUR LIFE ON
4) THE ABILITY TO BUILD POSITIVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE LOCAL DIVE COMMUNITY (Your bread and butter!)

It sounds like this is another one of those shops that have yet to figure it out. If it were my shop, I would understand how important it was that my AIR was of the highest quality, and that if for any reason, someone thought it was substandard, it would be in MY best interest to ensure that there was no problem, or that if there was it was corrected immediately and the customer left the store satisfied that I did everything I could to address the situation and (if possible) that they got what they came in for. I've no doubt that after you left the shop, filters were checked and tests were conducted. I'm sure you would have felt much better if that had been done right then and there, while you watched, even if nothing had been found to be wrong.

Please feel free to PM me with the name of the offending shop so that I can remove them from my last minute air supply. I don't ever want to rely on them for bad air fills.

[dwashbur]

Please feel free to PM me with the name of the offending shop so that I can remove them from my last minute air supply. I don't ever want to rely on them for bad air fills.

Me too. In fact, you're likely to get a lot of requests like this...

[rjw]

Please feel free to PM me with the name of the offending shop so that I can remove them from my last minute air supply. I don't ever want to rely on them for bad air fills.

Me too. In fact, you're likely to get a lot of requests like this...

I was diving with Bigsky on this dive along with a few of the usual suspects. I also had sniff of what was in his cylinders. Had a strong solvent/chemical smell. My dive was cut short as result of this as well.
Smell Helium ? Give me a break.
Smokey Point Diving needs to step up and not only make this right but inspect their equipment for possible contamination. This was just one of how many possible fills ? This is a matter of diver safety that should not be taken lightly.

[mattwave]

I have a call in to my gas supplier, I believe they supply such shop as well. This sounds really concerning and if it is the helium then I want know. It is a bummer you guys had to cut your dive short, I hope at least Dan got some worthy footy, but I am really glad Paul had the mindset to turn the dive before tragedy prevailed. This shop really needs to step up and I think they owe Paul more than just his money back on the top off, a whole hearted apology to say the least. ](*,)

[dsteding]

To answer your question about why dive shops pull this stuff:

I think that we're mostly talking about people that love to dive opening shops rather than true business-oriented people that want to make some money and provide top-notch customer service. As a result, the industry gathers some rather interesting characters.

One of the things that may be happening is that the shops are unwilling to admit they are wrong, or employees are unwilling to admit that they don't know the answer to something. In both cases, BS will be the result. The reality is it is better for a shop to say to you "I don't know how much that cleaning costs, but will find out" or "I'm glad you came back with smelly air, we'll do whatever it takes to figure out what is wrong." But, in doing that, the shop is admitting it is wrong or uninformed.

Especially in this industry the air of "knowledge" is an important part of a shop's image. The trust in the LDS is a big thing given that we're talking about life support. Some LDSs choose to BS their way towards giving off that air of knowledge, and the irony is that they'll never gain the trust of the thinking customer that way.

[rjw]

I have a call in to my gas supplier, I believe they supply such shop as well. This sounds really concerning and if it is the helium then I want know. It is a bummer you guys had to cut your dive short, I hope at least Dan got some worthy footy, but I am really glad Paul had the mindset to turn the dive before tragedy prevailed. This shop really needs to step up and I think they owe Paul more than just his money back on the top off, a whole hearted apology to say the least. ](*,)

Just to clarify Smokey Point DID NOT supply the helium on this fill. This was just an air top on previous trimix fill. I think Paul said they provided 1500-2000 psi of air only. The orginal fill was dove a few days prior with no issues.
Matt I really don't think you have any gas quality issues. Guess it can't hurt to be sure though.

[Joshua Smith]

I have a call in to my gas supplier, I believe they supply such shop as well. This sounds really concerning and if it is the helium then I want know. It is a bummer you guys had to cut your dive short, I hope at least Dan got some worthy footy, but I am really glad Paul had the mindset to turn the dive before tragedy prevailed. This shop really needs to step up and I think they owe Paul more than just his money back on the top off, a whole hearted apology to say the least. ](*,)

Matt, I've breathed gas fills from your shop below 7ATA more than a few times, many have had them even deeper. Never a problem. You're fine. I've had air fills from a couple of other shops in the past that smelled kinda funny, though. I just don't go in them any more, and that seems to work for everyone.

[mattwave]

oh, ok, misread, thought this was a helium quality issue.
Stupid bad smelling balloons, I wonder how many brains cells I killed cackling like Donald Duck as a kid.
I was thinking 20 bucks is cheap for a helium top off.

[Fishstiq]

Apologies, but I'm confused. You went to Smokey Point for trimix, and it was fine, right? Then you went to another shop for air, and that's where the bad air came from? Do I have that correct?

Sorry you lost the opportunity to dive, but kudos to you for having the good sense to thumb the dive and not try to force it!

[rjw]

Apologies, but I'm confused. You went to Smokey Point for trimix, and it was fine, right? Then you went to another shop for air, and that's where the bad air came from? Do I have that correct?

Sorry you lost the opportunity to dive, but kudos to you for having the good sense to thumb the dive and not try to force it!

The only thing that Smokey Point provided was AIR. This was just a needed top off to dive on Mon.
The original trimix fill was done a week prior by the one of our usual gas suppliers and dove without any issue (no smell or taste). This set was then given an air top. So these tanks were dove without issue on Sat, filled by SPD on Sun, made Paul sick on Mon. Pretty easy to narrow it down.
Kind of makes me wonder how many air fills they did last weekend.

[bigsky]

rjw explained it perfectly
i filled and sampled tanks on friday
dove to 240fsw the next saturdaywith a perfect dive
hell even got a grapple back
needed to top the tanks for a dive on the next monday
got back to town at 6:00 pm all my usual gas suppliers were closed
hell, two of them were diving with me
went to smokey point as all i needed was air
what could go wrong?
dove monday afternoon
now i sit here waiting for a doctors call to see if i can dive the governor next week
the helium was fine
i think the tanks smell like latex paint
rjw says chemicals like a paint thinner
the better half says smells like poison gas (how does she know what poison gas smells like?)
smokey point says bad balloons
i say shop accordingly, spend your money at the shops that do the dives you do
then you know the owner is using the same gasses, and he will make damn sure
that there is not a problem

on a side note, do not do this, but a lesson to learn by
i tasted the bad gas immedialtely, but had just had a bowl of chicken soup
and was not sure what the taste was, we made it to the wreck, started to look around
dan was filming and then i got iffy
lighted rjw up, he hates that 35 hid salvo
and we thumbed the dive 20 minutes short of planned bottom time
dan thumbed also
great to have a good team
i should have turned immediately, but there was a shipwreck down there
who knew?