What's the advantage of a BP?

[Metal man]

So being a very new diver I'm slowly peicing together all of the gear I need. Next up on my list is a BCD, since the one I'm now using must be for a small woman in tropical water . Anyway, I stumbled onto some of the BP/w conversations in other parts of the forum and, after checking out the DSS website, I'm hoping to get some feedback on what advatages or just personal opinions anyone has on BP/w set up versus a standard jacket style BCD. BTW I don't see myself diving doubles anytime in the near future if that matters.

[Nwbrewer]

Hey Metal man!

There's a lot of advantages to going the BP/W route. In terms of cost, you'll be right there with other BC's when you initially purchase the rig, however, the steel plate basically NEVER wears out, and if you go with a hog harness, when that wears out you're out $15 for new webbing. Most wings are pretty durable, and with moderate use are gonna last you a long time. (I don't dive DSS myself, but I've heard great things about them and have a few divebuddies who use them)

Hogarthian 1 piece harnesses are pretty mcuh infinatly adjustable. The steel BP takes weight off your belt, and puts it above your lungs, where it helps you trim out better. Most BC's have a lot of inherent bouyancy, which means you get to take off whatever weight you're using now to counteract that.

For me, their more comfortable. Once you get it adjusted right, it's easy to slip in and out of, the plate accross your back will distribute the weight accross your back, and keeps the tank from having that rolling feeling.

Hope that's helpful. I know NWSD in Kenmore is a DSS dealer if you're lookign to go checkout a rig. Tobin, the owner of DSS, is also a good resource, he's on a lot of boards and seems to answer questions pretty quickly.

Jake

[spatman]

there's a lot of good info in this thread scott started a while ago...

[BigFameOne]

I am certainly no resource. in terms of experience etc but I have done a lot of research and have worn both styles of BC (well jacket and bw/w) I found the jacket style to be cumbersome and full of pockets and buckles and although it allowed for a fair amount of adjustment I felt like it was never exactly right on me. Now the fit issue could certainly have been a brand issue and well could have been better or worse with a different brand etc. I switched to the rental bp/w at NWSD and it is a much simpler system, it doesn't clutter my front with buckles and straps and pockets and bladders etc. It is one strap that once adjusted makes the steel 130 and 30 pounds of weight I am carrying(not including the plate) much easier to wear and move with. I have much better control of my trim, sometimes even looking like I have a clue of what I am doing. I would suggest renting one and trying it or borrowing one from another local as I have seen that offer made by some of the local folks, that is if you don't have access to a friends or something. Once I tried the bp/w I can't even imagine going any other way once I start buying gear. My own bp/w will me my first purchase once I am certified and can throw money at this hobby, then a dry suit. Was a bit chilly yesterday after second dive.

[scottsax]

My experience with switching to a bp/w has been nothing but positive. At 60 dives, I feel like my skills are still developing, so I'm attributing my newfound trim and stability in the water to the gear switch! Moving 15 or so pounds off my waist and over my lungs has made it much easier to get and stay horizontal. My kicks are more efficient, and my air consumption has gone down.

I didn't do this myself, but I highly recommend borrowing a bp/w setup from someone here and trying it out for a few dives. I think you'll find it infinitely more comfortable than a standard BC. The rig doesn't slide around on my back because of the 5-point harness (the crotch strap makes all the difference in the world.)

Also, the harness, plus pockets on my suit and switching to a long hose/necklace configuration on my regs has enabled me to radically streamline my setup so there's virtually no drag in the water. After making the switch, there's no way I'd go back...

[Tangfish]

I prefer jacket BC, personally (even though I dive a BP/W, because it's part of my rig). I like that there are actual ergonomic features of the BC, and if you find one that fits you properly and has the features you want, it's pretty cool.

[loanwolf]

that is what FUFU pack's (Tech Pack's) are for is it not. They have the comfort of a sport BC with the advantage of a BP/W.

[lurch]

The steel BP takes weight off your belt, and puts it above your lungs, where it helps you trim out better. Most BC's have a lot of inherent bouyancy, which means you get to take off whatever weight you're using now to counteract that.

For example: when I started diving I wore 40lbs on a (rental) weight belt while using a (rental) jacket-style BC and a wetsuit. Once I bought my own backplate I took 10lbs off the belt (the weight of the BP and single-tank-adapter (STA)) right away. I bought a setup with non-ditchable weight pouches on the waist portion of the hogarthian harness which can hold 5lbs each. That was another 10lbs off my belt from the get-go. I'm down to a 20lb belt by now. I added a steel tank which took more weight off (an AL80 is 4lbs positive and my tank is 2lbs neg empty = 6lbs off) and I didn't have the inherent buoyancy of the jacket-style (say another 4 lbs). I was wearing a 10lb belt. Sound good so far?

With more experience diving I've gotten that belt down to 8lbs (If I'm in fresh water I use 4lbs in the belt) while diving a drysuit (which is more buoyant than a wetsuit) and thick undergarments. My setup now is:
-10lbs (plate & STA)
-10lbs (weight pouches)
-8lbs (belt)
-2lbs (tank)
=-30lbs (lower total weight comes with practice)

And just like a properly packed hiking backpack the weight is mostly centered against your back instead of on your hips (weight belt) or shoulders (weight harness). It's more comfortable to walk to the water.

I should mention that STAs are not absolutely necessary but they do make the whole rig more stable and take their own weight off your weight belt. There are also more "comfort oriented" harnesses available and pads you can place between you and your plate if you're that worried about abrasion or wear. If you're near NWSD in Kenmore we have a BP/W setup available for rental.

[Dusty2]

that is what FUFU pack's (Tech Pack's) are for is it not. They have the comfort of a sport BC with the advantage of a BP/W.

So don't dangle a term like that without an explination of what they are??? We have lots of people on here that don't understand all those acromyms and I don't just mean newbies.

[dwashbur]

I'm partial to the jacket style mainly because I never managed to master the art of keeping my face out of the water on the surface with a wing. I'm also not sure I understand the weight thing; I use a jacket BCD with my steel 95 tank and even though I'm somewhat rotund, I only wear 22 pounds of weight in my DUI harness and have no trim problems. As always, Your Mileage May Vary. But I like the fact that if I'm unconscious and somebody inflates my BCD and gets me to the surface, I KNOW my head will be above the water.

[Tangfish]

that is what FUFU pack's (Tech Pack's) are for is it not. They have the comfort of a sport BC with the advantage of a BP/W.

So don't dangle a term like that without an explination of what they are??? We have lots of people on here that don't understand all those acromyms and I don't just mean newbies.

I had to reread what he wrote a few times to understand what he meant. I *think* he's referring to hybrid models, such as the OMS IQ Pack or Dive Rite TransPac:

http://www.scubacenter.com/scubacenter_ ... nesses.htm

http://www.diveriteexpress.com/bcs/transpac.shtml

I think "FUFU" means that he thinks these are for wussies (like fu-fu drinks). I had an OMS Comfort Harness at one point, but have since cannibalized it for parts. I think you go either one way or another (traditional BCD or BP/W), since the hybrids seem to miss the mark on the advantages of both (i.e., they're not that ergonomic or customizable).

[scottsax]

I think "FUFU" means that he thinks these are for wussies (like fu-fu drinks).

Oh..... I chose to ignore the term since I didn't know what it meant. Which is why I got comments on my elementary school report cards like, "Scott could apply himself better."

[Nwbrewer]

that is what FUFU pack's (Tech Pack's) are for is it not. They have the comfort of a sport BC with the advantage of a BP/W.

So don't dangle a term like that without an explination of what they are??? We have lots of people on here that don't understand all those acromyms and I don't just mean newbies.

Uhhhhhh.... I think he means FuFu, as in frilly or fluffy. It's not an acronym.

[airsix]

Gabe,
You'll get the best value from asking someone to go diving with you to let you try out a well configured bp/w. One dive of first-hand experience (combined with assistance from someone who's been down that road) will answer your questions more effectively than this thread (not to knock the thread. this is a good place to start). I recommend you attend one of the NWUE "tweek" (Tuesday weekly) dives. That group has some great mentors in it and there is an open invitation for divers to come try out just the sort of thing you're asking for. Have fun and report back.

-Ben

[Sockmonkey]

I couldn't agree more with Airsix... if you show up at a Tuesday night dive and quietly mention you are thinking about trying a bp/w... you'll find yourself buried under a pile of people's loaner gear like when Elmer Fudd opens his closet (that bowling ball always seems to be on the top shelf for some reason)

Gabe.... The first time I put on my bp/w was in the tropics in a 3mm wetsuit and I felt N-A-K-E-D (as compared to my monster back inflate BC).

There are many real and practical reasons to go with a simple bp/w setup of course... but feeling unencumbered was were it started with me... and then went on to the usual reasons... stability and repeatability of trim and balance... reliability and durability... standardization... the list goes on. In fact you can spend a few days here and Scubaboard reading the pros and cons of a bp/w. The best way is to just get in one compare for yourself.

See you next Tuesday maybe?

-Eric

[vbcoachchris]

In fact you can spend a few days here and Scubaboard reading the pros and cons of a bp/w.

There are cons?

Scott

[Sockmonkey]

In fact you can spend a few days here and Scubaboard reading the pros and cons of a bp/w.

There are cons?

Scott

Maybe some people enjoy having a bazillion pockets?

Could be that you're really into lime green dive gear?

Or you take a lot of PADI classes that require that you don and doff your BC at the surface?

Also maybe they <insert crotch strap related joke here>?

-Eric

[scottsax]

Could be that you're really into lime green dive gear?

-Eric

There's gotta be a Penopolypants joke in there somewhere....

[spatman]

Could be that you're really into lime green dive gear?

-Eric

There's gotta be a Penopolypants joke in there somewhere....

probably something about getting a lime-green slap upside your head if you go there....

[scottsax]

Could be that you're really into lime green dive gear?

-Eric

There's gotta be a Penopolypants joke in there somewhere....

probably something about getting a lime-green slap upside your head if you go there....

Uhhh....yeah, I withdraw the statement. She's been my ride the last couple weekends, so I should probably shut the hell up....

[vbcoachchris]

In fact you can spend a few days here and Scubaboard reading the pros and cons of a bp/w.

There are cons?

Scott

Or you take a lot of PADI classes that require that you don and doff your BC at the surface?

-Eric

As an instructor who has taught students in both configurations extensively, I have found my students perform this skill MUCH more proficiently in a BP/W. Don't they make lime green webbing?

Scott

[CaptnJack]

Could be that you're really into lime green dive gear?

-Eric

There's gotta be a Penopolypants joke in there somewhere....

Also maybe they <insert crotch strap related joke here>?

This isn't it already?

[lurch]

Or you take a lot of PADI classes that require that you don and doff your BC at the surface?

I've taken off my BP/W on the surface twice. Release waist buckle, undo crotch strap, undo drysuit hose and take off bungied octo if so equipped, slide one arm out, slide other arm out. I wasn't in a pool either. Granted I haven't tried putting it on in the water but I don't see how it'd be overwhelmingly difficult.

[dwashbur]

that is what FUFU pack's (Tech Pack's) are for is it not. They have the comfort of a sport BC with the advantage of a BP/W.

So don't dangle a term like that without an explination of what they are??? We have lots of people on here that don't understand all those acromyms and I don't just mean newbies.

Uhhhhhh.... I think he means FuFu, as in frilly or fluffy. It's not an acronym.

I'm gonna chime in and ask about something mentioned a few posts back that I'm sure is an acrynym: what's DSS? In the circles where I come from, it means "Dead Sea Scrolls." But in this context, that just seems silly...

[cardiver]

DSS.....Deep Sea Supply.