a little help with navigation and compass work please?!?!?

[BigFameOne]

So my two buddies that I took OW with recently went to Cove 2 for a dive on a day when vis was said to be really poor. They had planned a trip to EUP but Matthew said tides would be tough, and thought vis was not going to be good at the cove so suggested Lake Wa. They decided to jump in Cove 2 anyway and figured they could always call the dive if it became clear they were in over their heads so to speak.The only other time any of us had been in the water at cove 2 was for one dive at the end of OW when vis was nice and we were being lead by Gerry.

Dive went fine for the most part although they had some trouble finding the Honey Bear and they know they need to work harder at having a plan, and buddy skills among other things.

As they ascended they got split up and that turned into an argument back at the surface and a new plan. In any case they had trouble with compass work, I wasn't there so I am only reporting it as I understand it but I think they went to the buoy, took a compass reading, and dropped down and at that point somehow, already weren't sure which way was which. They tooled around a bit in pretty poor vis not really knowing where they were or really where anything was and ended up nearing the point that they needed to get back in (gas wasn't LOW but they were on the last 1/ or so I think). They had enough gas to make a slow ascent with some safety hang time in there ONLY they didn't know which way was shore, and the poor vis meant no clues for someone new to diving, no compass skills, and without knowing the site. The two of them didn't agree on which was in and since they were in essence pointing in the exact opposite direction from each other they opted for an ascent right there and a midwater stop. They sort of pulled off a stop at 15-30 feet but buoyancy control was an issue and so one guy in particular had more trouble maintaining a level depth and finally just corked, he other buddy followed him up. Max depths on the dive were <60fsw but we are trying to practice doing things one way,so that means we don't have to relearn things as we continue with diving and one buddy in particular often feels sick the day after a dive so we are TRYING to plan a MUCH slower ascent with few stops. I think a midwater stop is beyond our skill level, and certainly was a little more than they had in them that day. In the end everyone was okay and all they had to deal with was a longer than expected swim in, but clearly there are things to learn from such a dive.

My questions are these. In diving with a few folks would it be wise to set one persons compass to show straight out and straight back to shore, so that in a moment of confusion one person can always point back to the beach? I can't even remember if it is out to the mountain and back to the valley or the other way around? any tips that have made compass use or navigation in general easier for you? Is there a resource (book, website, or otherwise) that could help us learn to A. handle such a situation better, and B. just plain have better nav skills?

Thanks guys in advance for any help you can offer..

[Nwbrewer]

As far as the technical navigation techniques, I'm affriad I'm not a lot of help. I will say I don't bother trying to rember if back to the beach is 130degrees, or 135 degrees. I rarely set my compass bezel. I generally just look on the surace at which direction shore is gonna be. (NSEW) I may go so far as to rememeber if it's southwest, or northwest back to shore, but that's about it. Wen I'm navigating I just bas all of my turns off of that direction (ie +/- 90 degrees to the beach, 180 degrees to the beach, whatever.) Note that this doesn't work well for boat diving, but even there, I'll figure what direction I want to start, and base all of my turns etc. off of that. I rememeber an North a lot better than 0degrees, but maybe that's just me.

Jake

[Sockmonkey]

More info and links can be found in this this thread.

-Eric

[BigFameOne]

NWBrewer Thats helpful, certainly knowing that S gets me home is better than a number that gets lost amongst pin numbers and dates as soon as brain freeze occurs.


BY the way dude I told you a while back about a local brewery (in a storage unit on the burke gillman trail) that you should check into. Here is there site.

http://gilligansbrewingcompany.blogspot.com/

I know that it is just SW about 50 yards from the back gate at work, gets me there every time.

[Pez7378]

Out to the Valley and back to the Mountain. I set it before every dive, even if I know the site well. Navigation is a combination of compass, visual reference and knowing. Knowing where you are, and where you're going, and which way is home is something you have to develop. In time, you learn each site so that you can make an educated guess of where you are, and where you need to be.

Remember that newer divers are task loaded to the max, so paying attention to direction of travel takes a back seat to bouyancy, breath control, all the pretty fishies, buddy skills, gas management, the little pretty fishies, maintaining depth and staying within no deco limits.

I suggest that when you dive with more experienced divers, that you ask them to let you Navigate. They can show you some things you may not have thought of. Also, to become more familiar with a compass in general, practice on land with your buddies. Learn how the compass works, what all the numbers and letters mean and practice. In time, you will probably forget about the compass, and you'll just be using navigating by your own sense of direction.

Also look here for more Navigation tips:

http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6079

[BigFameOne]

thanks folks, reading the other thread now. Maye I grab a compass and trudge off to the park for some practice.

[Tom Nic]

I almost always set my compass bezel for the trip back in - always if I'm not familiar with the site or if it is the type of site that has featureless, level bottom. Sunnyside in Steilacoom is that kind of site, as are the shallows at Les Davis - both of which are used by newer divers in their training. I've had a buddy get compass headings turned around in his head and end up swimming parallel to shore for quite a ways. For us it was just a little "niggly" and not something that turned into a problem other than "why has the depth been 28fsw for the last 4 minutes?!" At Sunnyside the flat space is LARGE, and if you're not sure what direction you're going it can be confusing and end up in a mid-water ascent if you get low on gas. Having a compass reading in your head is simple at many divesites around here, but can also develop the bad habit of not getting a compass reading before you drop. Good reminder for all of us.

[Sounder]

I've got one that you're welcome to borrow. I can show you how to navigate too - it's just one of things that has to "click" but once you have that ah-HA moment, you'll be good to go.

BTW - 210 takes you home at Cove 2... Just be sure you're reading it through the window and not from the top (the 210 should be facing you, and NOT at the top of the dial in the 12 o'clock position as you're looking down on it from the top).

[BigFameOne]

I've got one that you're welcome to borrow. I can show you how to navigate too - it's just one of things that has to "click" but once you have that ah-HA moment, you'll be good to go.

BTW - 210 takes you home at Cove 2... Just be sure you're reading it through the window and not from the top (the 210 should be facing you, and NOT at the top of the dial in the 12 o'clock position as you're looking down on it from the top).

Thanks my man, maybe I need to have my buddy tattoo'ed with 210 on his arm. THats good to know, and appreciate the offer. Can't wait to be able to go dive.

[pogiguy05]

Well I understand the AH HA moment cause I had mine. It was just like one of the times when it just hits you and then you say "How could I have not seen that it was that easy". I would have only one thing to add and if I am the one doing the navigating and I can remember to bring it, I use my slate that I wear on my left arm. I right down the degree headings and the direction IE right,left, or about face. I also agree that it helps to know the site and you see familiar things.The slate also comes in handy when you need to really get something across to your dive buddy and all that hand gesturing is not working. I also usually make a mental not of what NSEW heading is back to shore just in case things get crazy and my mind is overloaded with clutter.


Did I mention it has been a while since I was diving. This cold weather and wetsuit diving has me a little timid.

[Sounder]

I've got one that you're welcome to borrow. I can show you how to navigate too - it's just one of things that has to "click" but once you have that ah-HA moment, you'll be good to go.

BTW - 210 takes you home at Cove 2... Just be sure you're reading it through the window and not from the top (the 210 should be facing you, and NOT at the top of the dial in the 12 o'clock position as you're looking down on it from the top).

Thanks my man, maybe I need to have my buddy tattoo'ed with 210 on his arm. THats good to know, and appreciate the offer. Can't wait to be able to go dive.

Come on out sometime - I'll lend you the compass and give you a 10 minute "how to." That'll be all you need... it's really not hard when you conceptualize it but it appears to be a daunting task when you're looking at all the "what if's."

Then, once your buoyancy is good and you're good with your compass, we'll take away the visual reference and do it blindly in mid-water... that's one of the most challenging dives in Grateful Diver's AOW class.

[Pez7378]

... that's one of the most challenging dives in Grateful Diver's AOW class.

That's just because YOU kept getting lost. Dsteding and I on the other hand, well, let's just say we're the reason Bob made it harder. (wink wink)

Here's one more peice of advice that I remembered learning from Bob. I looked through both threads and didn't see that it was mentioned.

Periodically, during the dive, wheather you are navigating or not, take a look back once in awhile and take a mental picture. Things tend to look totally different from the opposite direction.

[Dusty2]

mountains and valleys can be tough to remember . The way I remember is once you set your compass for the trip out, Point to point will always bring you back. In other words point the north arrow at the point on the bezel and your headin home. and as said a slate or nav card is a very good idea especially if your in unfamiliar waters

[BigFameOne]

sounder I will take you up on that as soon as snow tames itself and you have some time to spare. Whether I can dive yet or not, I will take some nav pointers and I have a payment for you of African Amber. LOL


Pez thanks that makes a lot of sense to rely on the occasional mental snapshot rather than get to a destination and try to picture it in reverse.



"Point to point" I can remember that too, the valley and mountain stuff just doesn't seem to stick with me.

[Sounder]

... that's one of the most challenging dives in Grateful Diver's AOW class.

That's just because YOU kept getting lost. Dsteding and I on the other hand, well, let's just say we're the reason Bob made it harder. (wink wink)

Hee hee - I nailed it the first time... the vis was so bad I saw the chain about 12" before it'd have hit me in the face. Id don git bettah dahn dat, mon! :rr:

[Grateful Diver]

... that's one of the most challenging dives in Grateful Diver's AOW class.

That's just because YOU kept getting lost. Dsteding and I on the other hand, well, let's just say we're the reason Bob made it harder. (wink wink)

.. actually, you're the reason I will no longer do this dive on days with 40-foot vis ... makes it too easy ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[sunnydude]

I like Pez's suggestion to let an experienced diver lead if you are with one. When he and Joe were with us last weekend they took the lead at EUWP. The second dive I had the compass with just Norris and we found our way to our starting bouy but we also could reference places we were at during the first dive.

I need work on my navigating but felt pretty good that when we wanted to swim to the yellow bouy and start from there and we were within ~30 feet from it when we found the line.

[airsix]

I suggest that when you dive with more experienced divers, that you ask them to let you Navigate.* They can show you some things you may not have thought of.

*emphasis added by me.

I think what Chris is saying is practice under supervision. You'll never learn navigation by following the navigator, but if you volunteer to do the navigating (under experienced supervision) you'll learn it quickly.

-Ben (by the way, navigation is probably by biggest diving weakness, which is a personal frustration since I do a fair job of navigation in non-diving environments.)

[Dusty2]

-Ben (by the way, navigation is probably by biggest diving weakness, which is a personal frustration since I do a fair job of navigation in non-diving environments.)

No reason to be frustrated. What most people don't realize is that above water there are dozens of sensory clues that we hone in on without even knowing it. Underwater all of these are gone and we must go on blind trust which is tough for most people to do. That is why I suggested in the other post that you practice at night in an unlighted area where you must depend on the compass without external cues. That's why the army uses the black bag to train it's helicopter pilots. They put a black bag over your head to force you to learn to use the night flying instruments. You would be surprised how many trainees can not pass this phase. Night compass work is also a required subject for ground forces.

[BigFameOne]

thanks again guys, much appreciated. I have decided the best way to learn to navigate without the benefit of clear vision and context markers is to just get out and do it so I am going to black out the windows in my car and drive home using just my compass. In the vent that things go badly I just wanted to warn everyone to beware of the 1999 Mazda 626 with the diver down flag sticker on it.

[spatman]

thanks again guys, much appreciated. I have decided the best way to learn to navigate without the benefit of clear vision and context markers is to just get out and do it so I am going to black out the windows in my car and drive home using just my compass. In the vent that things go badly I just wanted to warn everyone to beware of the 1999 Mazda 626 with the diver down flag sticker on it.

judging from some of the other threads on this forum, it seems like a lot of folks up there are practicing their compass skills that way....

[BigFameOne]

thanks again guys, much appreciated. I have decided the best way to learn to navigate without the benefit of clear vision and context markers is to just get out and do it so I am going to black out the windows in my car and drive home using just my compass. In the vent that things go badly I just wanted to warn everyone to beware of the 1999 Mazda 626 with the diver down flag sticker on it.

judging from some of the other threads on this forum, it seems like a lot of folks up there are practicing their compass skills that way....

true but only I was cordial enough to post a warning.

[ArcticDiver]

And if circumstances warrant there really isn't any reason not to cheat a bit. Lots of gas, you are in the proper area, slow ascent to the surface to do a Nav Check. The Ah Ha moment and back down you go to finish the dive. It will be either a confidence builder, or a lesson; neither is wasted.

[Sounder]

thanks again guys, much appreciated. I have decided the best way to learn to navigate without the benefit of clear vision and context markers is to just get out and do it so I am going to black out the windows in my car and drive home using just my compass. In the vent that things go badly I just wanted to warn everyone to beware of the 1999 Mazda 626 with the diver down flag sticker on it.

judging from some of the other threads on this forum, it seems like a lot of folks up there are practicing their compass skills that way....

true but only I was cordial enough to post a warning.

[Joshua Smith]

thanks again guys, much appreciated. I have decided the best way to learn to navigate without the benefit of clear vision and context markers is to just get out and do it so I am going to black out the windows in my car and drive home using just my compass. In the vent that things go badly I just wanted to warn everyone to beware of the 1999 Mazda 626 with the diver down flag sticker on it.

judging from some of the other threads on this forum, it seems like a lot of folks up there are practicing their compass skills that way....

true but only I was cordial enough to post a warning.

Uh......should I be on the lookout for a Mazda 626 with a sign on top saying:

CAUTION: STUDENT DIVER

?


Couldn't resist. Actually, I'm surprised this pack of die-hard bad pun freaks missed that one. Surprised, and disappointed, really. Geeze, that was hanging out there for hours. I just walked in and shot it like a big fish in a small barrel. Try and stay focused, people.