Recreational Rebreather

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:35 pm

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/conten ... ology.html

Linedog · Post by **Linedog** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:58 am

2 hour duration? I may well be wrong, quite often I am, it just looks like a big hassle for 2 hours. Now if it was 4 or more. . . . .

Dusty2 · Post by **Dusty2** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:01 am

No mention of pricing other than it's cheaper than the other guys? The bottom line is PPD (price per dive) being a cartridge system means that your talking one dive per so what's the cartridge cost?

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:04 am

From my understanding from pieces of information on more than three websites. It's a very simple rebreather designed for ease of use. No bailout needed to 60 ft and bailout afterwords. I'm guessing they will be using 50% or 40% as the tanks nitrox mix since bailout would probably come from the nitrox tank on the back.

If the price comes cheap, maybe this could be the recreational rebreather revolution?

coulterboy · Post by **coulterboy** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:42 am

This was exactly what I was telling you about last Thursday Ron when we dove at TTN. A local LDS said that they are looking into this, and maybe will have a demo day in the future. Also, now don't quote me on this, it may be almost be just half the price of the Poseidon. At least, that's what the shop said. Something to put on everybody's "watch list".

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:44 am

coulterboy wrote:This was exactly what I was telling you about last Thursday Ron we we dove at TTN. A local LDS said that they are looking into this, and maybe will have a demo day in the future. Also, now don't quote me on this, it may be almost be just half the price of the Poseidon. At least, that's what the shop said. Something to put on everybody's "watch list".

As soon as I saw this I knew it was the one that you mentioned.
Looking forward to a demo day at some point!

LCF · Post by **LCF** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:48 pm

Well, I looked around on line, and sorb cartridges I could find run about $30 apiece. With a 2 hour scrubber duration, we're pretty much talking a canister per dive. Considering there are people who won't dive NITROX because it's too expensive, I don't see a lot of people getting cheerful about $30 a dive for sorb.

camerone · Post by **camerone** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:05 pm

As I understand it, it's also branded Hollis, but actually engineered by VR Technologies. If it's as much of a leaky sieve as the Ouroboros or Sentinel, or as unreliable as the recent VRx handsets, it's worth giving this one a wide, wide berth. <sarcasm>Actually, if it's VR, the "svelte" aesthetics of the unit will mandate a wide berth anyway </sarcasm>

I've now seen four cartridge rebreathers up close and personal (two retrofits for the Inspiration and Dolphin, plus the Poseidon disaster they call a recreational rebreather, and the Titan CCR). None have impressed me, although I've found the gyrations the owners go through to "save" the remaining 'sorb time on the cartridges to be insanely amusing and worth the entertainment value alone. The logic of "you can't screw this up" makes complete sense for a recreational rebreather, but the overhead, hassle of finding the carts, the scrubber use times, and the cost make it a concept that could only be referred to in the absolute kindest terms as "stupid."

Let's hope that this one is better engineered than the VR products I've seen to date...and I say that as an ex-VR3 user. It'll be interesting to see this when it's on the market...

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:41 pm

Yay a Draeger using cartridges, not.

skubi · Post by **skubi** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:13 am

Soon enough someone will make an loose sorb canister for it. That will bring the price per dive down a lot.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:27 pm

LCF wrote:Well, I looked around on line, and sorb cartridges I could find run about $30 apiece. With a 2 hour scrubber duration, we're pretty much talking a canister per dive. Considering there are people who won't dive NITROX because it's too expensive, I don't see a lot of people getting cheerful about $30 a dive for sorb.

Yeah, no kidding. I've never done a formal analysis of sorb on my Meg, but I figure I get conservatively 10 scrubber fills out of a keg. A Keg costs $130. My scrubber is rated for 3 hours in cold water, so 130/10 = $13/ fill/ 3 = $4.33/ an hour. I wouldn't want to own a unit that only accepted cartidges.

Dmitchell · Post by **Dmitchell** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:04 pm

Same here on the Kiss.

I hate it when a company does a press release on something and all they provide are computerized images. That screams of vaporware and in the rebreather industry vaporware is pretty common!

Raydar · Post by **Raydar** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:40 am

So I guess I'm the only one that starts twitching when I heard 'Recreational' and 'Rebreather' mentioned in the same sentence?

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:07 am

Raydar wrote:So I guess I'm the only one that starts twitching when I heard 'Recreational' and 'Rebreather' mentioned in the same sentence?

Sure but its like the boogy man, doesn't exist, will never make it to market. Big whoop

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:10 am

Raydar wrote:So I guess I'm the only one that starts twitching when I heard 'Recreational' and 'Rebreather' mentioned in the same sentence?

No ... you're not the only one ... but I figured for once in my life I should just not offer an opinion ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:58 am

CaptnJack wrote:
Raydar wrote:So I guess I'm the only one that starts twitching when I heard 'Recreational' and 'Rebreather' mentioned in the same sentence?
Sure but its like the boogy man, doesn't exist, will never make it to market. Big whoop

Like it or not, "recreational rebreathers" ARE coming. PADI has jumped on the bandwagon. Personally, I don't think its a great idea. But it IS happening. We already have the MK VI and the KISS gem, with a few others in the pipe.

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:57 am

Joshua Smith wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:
Raydar wrote:So I guess I'm the only one that starts twitching when I heard 'Recreational' and 'Rebreather' mentioned in the same sentence?
Sure but its like the boogy man, doesn't exist, will never make it to market. Big whoop
Like it or not, "recreational rebreathers" ARE coming. PADI has jumped on the bandwagon. Personally, I don't think its a great idea. But it IS happening. We already have the MK VI and the KISS gem, with a few others in the pipe.

yup but not being any cheaper than OC nitrox will keep most away, which is probably a good thing.

Norris · Post by **Norris** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:58 am

Don't be afraid people. Society has proven time and time again that change is scary for most. What I have read tells me that rec rebreathers WILL make it to market, and I am certain that there will be extensive training to those that want to take that path.
It seems a little pretentious to twitch and get uncomfy about a new product assuming that others are just mindless pawns walking around bumping into each other and looking for the next, most expensive way to off themselves. Give divers a little credit and lets wait until introduction before assuming the worst.
I LOVE the technology of the rebreather and might even consider one after my 1000th dive and bloated bank account (waiting on both he he). An affordable, recreational rebreather would be IDEAL for filming and photography (damn bubbles).

I would have loved to seen some of the comments made when mixing gases first hit the SCUBA peeps...

VOODOO GAS!!!!

CaptnJack · Post by **CaptnJack** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:07 pm

Norris wrote:Give divers a little credit

Why? The majority dive <6 dives a year and can barely get an OC reg on a tank + BC situated. They don't need more crap even if it is an "idiotproof" recreational rebreather. Since someone has already offed themselves on the MkVI which was billed as "idiotproof" that just illustrates that a better idiot will always come along.

But hey there's no money in decent training or experience, more stuff is the way, the American way.

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:18 pm

CaptnJack wrote:
Norris wrote:Give divers a little credit
Why? The majority dive <6 dives a year and can barely get an OC reg on a tank + BC situated. They don't need more crap even if it is an "idiotproof" recreational rebreather. Since someone has already offed themselves on the MkVI which was billed as "idiotproof" that just illustrates that a better idiot will always come along.

But hey there's no money in decent training or experience, more stuff is the way, the American way.

Just curious. How many "tech" divers have died using a rebreather?
Stupidity is not limited to oc recreational divers.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:03 pm

cardiver wrote:
CaptnJack wrote:
Norris wrote:Give divers a little credit
Why? The majority dive <6 dives a year and can barely get an OC reg on a tank + BC situated. They don't need more crap even if it is an "idiotproof" recreational rebreather. Since someone has already offed themselves on the MkVI which was billed as "idiotproof" that just illustrates that a better idiot will always come along.

But hey there's no money in decent training or experience, more stuff is the way, the American way.
Just curious. How many "tech" divers have died using a rebreather?
Stupidity is not limited to oc recreational divers.

We lose roughly 1 CCR diver a month, globally.

Dashrynn · Post by **Dashrynn** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:07 pm

You guys, the wheel, fire, breathing underwater. All scary and new, people kill themselves everyday over something stupid whether they; drive into someone, burn their house down, drown because they forgot to turn on their tank. Stupidity will never stop existing; but it is natures natural way of selection. (Yes I JUST said that)

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:17 pm

I started this thread because I saw an article on Scubaboard about this product. I didn't mean to start a pissing match between our "tech" divers and our "recreation" divers.
I have typed and deleted four of my post because of the elitist attitude taken by some of the divers on this board. I'm offended that you think that a lowly, open circuit diver could not fathom the complexities of a rebreather as you have.
Here's what I think. I think that most "tech" rebreather divers enjoy being in a elite group and they don't want that group to expand and include us diver who are happy staying in the 130' range and doing our thing......

Grateful Diver · Post by **Grateful Diver** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:21 pm

cardiver wrote:I started this thread because I saw an article on Scubaboard about this product. I didn't mean to start a pissing match between our "tech" divers and our "recreation" divers.
I have typed and deleted four of my post because of the elitist attitude taken by some of the divers on this board. I'm offended that you think that a lowly, open circuit diver could not fathom the complexities of a rebreather as you have.
Here's what I think. I think that most "tech" rebreather divers enjoy being in a elite group and they don't want that group to expand and include us diver who are happy staying in the 130' range and doing our thing......

Actually, I think quite a few recreational divers would be able to safely handle a rebreather. Those aren't the ones that worry me. The ones that worry me are the ones who will want quick, cheap, and easy training on it ... because someone will surely provide it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

cardiver · Post by **cardiver** » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:22 pm

Grateful Diver wrote:
cardiver wrote:I started this thread because I saw an article on Scubaboard about this product. I didn't mean to start a pissing match between our "tech" divers and our "recreation" divers.
I have typed and deleted four of my post because of the elitist attitude taken by some of the divers on this board. I'm offended that you think that a lowly, open circuit diver could not fathom the complexities of a rebreather as you have.
Here's what I think. I think that most "tech" rebreather divers enjoy being in a elite group and they don't want that group to expand and include us diver who are happy staying in the 130' range and doing our thing......
Actually, I think quite a few recreational divers would be able to safely handle a rebreather. Those aren't the ones that worry me. The ones that worry me are the ones who will want quick, cheap, and easy training on it ... because someone will surely provide it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Why would the training be any different for this rebreather than it is for the ones currently on the market?

Northwest Dive Club