What to do about the silt

[airsix]

There are other places, like Les Davis between the beach and the reef, where silt is going to be a way of life because there's just so much of it.

Dave, I beg to differ. Silt is always a choice. You can choose "no silt" and make it happen regardless of the conditions. It's a matter of making it a priority. Case in point I recently dived Les Davis with a large group (8 divers). At the end of the 60 minute dive there was absolutely no evidence anyone had been there, let a lone a group of 8. Zero silt no-trace diving. Kudos to those great divers who let me tag along. (they are all members of this board).

-Ben

[Jenbowes]

As an FYI, I honestly have no idea about how bad a silter I am, because I haven't done an out and back dive, yet - it's usually a circuit. I also don't quite yet have the knack of hanging upside down to look behind me. So, honestly, having someone TELL me, in kind and supportive ways, would be outstanding! I want to be a better diver.

I also love the idea of a clinic with surface education, followed by a buddy dive. It'd be neat to have an education video playing there, too, that people could watch. If there's any way that I could help, I'd be happy to do so.

Also:

4. I made the T-shirt graphic in a moment of frustration. I don't know that it would have any constructive purpose at all. Probably the opposite.

I think the shirts are funny! I like it! Maybe we could include a web link to the educational video under the "no silt" side. I think as long as the wearer isn't an ass about it, being too political, mean, or pontificating, it's just funny. They could be sold with that disclaimer ... "The wearer of this shirt must not be an ass."

[BDub]

If there's enough interest, I'm willing to give a presentation on Balance, addressing buoyancy, trim, kicks, weighting, etc.

Doing the dives is important, watching video is important, but understanding how they work is equally important.

[Nwbrewer]

There are other places, like Les Davis between the beach and the reef, where silt is going to be a way of life because there's just so much of it.

Dave, I beg to differ. Silt is always a choice. You can choose "no silt" and make it happen regardless of the conditions. It's a matter of making it a priority. Case in point I recently dived Les Davis with a large group (8 divers). At the end of the 60 minute dive there was absolutely no evidence anyone had been there, let a lone a group of 8. Zero silt no-trace diving. Kudos to those great divers who let me tag along. (they are all members of this board).

-Ben

I agree with Ben. I've done dives in Lake Washington, where there is no bottom, just different densities of silt, with groups of 3 or 4 divers where there really is no evidence that we've passed. All it requires is some dedication to good buoyancy, and kicking techniques.

Jen, you don't have to do an "in and out" just pause for a few minutes to look at something. It will become apparent rather quickly if you are stirring up silt.

[Sounder]

There are other places, like Les Davis between the beach and the reef, where silt is going to be a way of life because there's just so much of it.

Dave, I beg to differ. Silt is always a choice. You can choose "no silt" and make it happen regardless of the conditions. It's a matter of making it a priority. Case in point I recently dived Les Davis with a large group (8 divers). At the end of the 60 minute dive there was absolutely no evidence anyone had been there, let a lone a group of 8. Zero silt no-trace diving. Kudos to those great divers who let me tag along. (they are all members of this board).

-Ben

I also agree with Ben.

When someone has 50-100 dives, not silting becomes a choice if they've been exposed to the information that it can be prevented (which everyone on this board obviously has through this thread). There is no need to lay on the bottom, put a fin tip down to stabilize, or even put a finger down. It's a matter of wanting to learn stability in the water, and then practicing it... and it only takes a dive or two to really "get it" once you know what you're looking for (see all the videos posted earlier in the thread).

When the fishing reel was lost under the Cove 2 fishing pier, it was very important that the team going in didn't disturb a whisp of silt as that would have had the potential to cause a safety hazard with all the garbage down there as well as it would have handicapped the search effort. With 8-10 divers in the water, all in a small area, going back and forth over the same areas in grid-searching patterns... and not one whisp of silt was disturbed.

Additionally, in Lake Washington there is the layer of "false bottom" silt. In diving the wrecks there, the vis is already poor enough that the slightest whisp of silt would effectively blow-out the site yet there are entire teams of divers diving around these wrecks, all at the time time, and they're not disturbing anything.

So my recommendation is to skip the fin down, finger down, and silt-bomb kicking, and put the time and effort into learning how to leave the site pristine for the divers behind you. Your efforts will be appreciated.

[Burntchef]

There are other places, like Les Davis between the beach and the reef, where silt is going to be a way of life because there's just so much of it.

Dave, I beg to differ. Silt is always a choice. You can choose "no silt" and make it happen regardless of the conditions. It's a matter of making it a priority. Case in point I recently dived Les Davis with a large group (8 divers). At the end of the 60 minute dive there was absolutely no evidence anyone had been there, let a lone a group of 8. Zero silt no-trace diving. Kudos to those great divers who let me tag along. (they are all members of this board).

-Ben

I also agree with Ben.

When someone has 50-100 dives, not silting becomes a choice if they've been exposed to the information that it can be prevented (which everyone on this board obviously has through this thread). There is no need to lay on the bottom, put a fin tip down to stabilize, or even put a finger down. It's a matter of wanting to learn stability in the water, and then practicing it... and it only takes a dive or two to really "get it" once you know what you're looking for (see all the videos posted earlier in the thread).

When the fishing reel was lost under the Cove 2 fishing pier, it was very important that the team going in didn't disturb a whisp of silt as that would have had the potential to cause a safety hazard with all the garbage down there as well as it would have handicapped the search effort. With 8-10 divers in the water, all in a small area, going back and forth over the same areas in grid-searching patterns... and not one whisp of silt was disturbed.

Additionally, in Lake Washington there is the layer of "false bottom" silt. In diving the wrecks there, the vis is already poor enough that the slightest whisp of silt would effectively blow-out the site yet there are entire teams of divers diving around these wrecks, all at the time time, and they're not disturbing anything.

So my recommendation is to skip the fin down, finger down, and silt-bomb kicking, and put the time and effort into learning how to leave the site pristine for the divers behind you. Your efforts will be appreciated.

so whats the plan to do about the dozens and dozens or so divers that arent memebers here? the ones that do only dive a few times a summer and most likely dont care about silting. i think the workshop is fine for those here that need it and dont know where to go but they are a very small percent of the problem. ive been to muk and cove2 plenty of times during huge classes and never had a dive ruined. if silt bothers you that much move down the site, go elsewhere or like richard said charter a boat. guess iam kind of amazed this has taken 4 pages to get to a very easy point.

but calling it laziness or a choice to silt is in my opinion wrong, do you really think they get to a site and say i choose to silt today and not care or boy iam lazy lets silt it up. if you dont know what a frog kick is how are you supposed to know? even at 100 dives. what do i know i dive with silt photogs all the time

[CaptnJack]

I agree that the one finger trick isn't necessary. Maybe an intermediate step, but ultimately not necessary. And it will not work in the lake at all. The silt there will not support even a ounce or two of body weight, at least the upper surface layers are basically the density of water.

[CaptnJack]

so whats the plan to do about the dozens and dozens or so divers that arent memebers here? the ones that do only dive a few times a summer and most likely dont care about silting. i think the workshop is fine for those here that need it and dont know where to go but they are a very small percent of the problem. ive been to muk and cove2 plenty of times during huge classes and never had a dive ruined. if silt bothers you that much move down the site, go elsewhere or like richard said charter a boat. guess iam kind of amazed this has taken 4 pages to get to a very easy point.

but what do i know i dive with silt photogs all the time

Burn them!!!

[Burntchef]

WITCH!!

[BDub]

so whats the plan to do about the dozens and dozens or so divers that arent memebers here? the ones that do only dive a few times a summer and most likely dont care about silting. i think the workshop is fine for those here that need it and dont know where to go but they are a very small percent of the problem. ive been to muk and cove2 plenty of times during huge classes and never had a dive ruined. if silt bothers you that much move down the site, go elsewhere or like richard said charter a boat. guess iam kind of amazed this has taken 4 pages to get to a very easy point.

but what do i know i dive with silt photogs all the time

Good point, Howard. Personally, I've never had a dive ruined because of silt, but there's certainly been dives that I would've enjoyed more if there wasn't a trail. However, if I'm going to dive the Coves, or Mukilteo, that is to be expected and can't complain if I do run into silt bombs.

As far as the workshop specifically, that was only an offer extended to people who may be interested in improving those aspects of their diving. Yes, its targeting a small audience, but there's also lurkers and I'd guess that many people on this board dive with buddies who aren't on this board. If their buddies see an improvement in their new skills, their more apt to want to improve as well.

Some people don't care...that's their choice, and diving is all about personal choice. But I think this is a great topic who do want to improve those skills.

[airsix]

if you dont know what a frog kick is how are you supposed to know? even at 100 dives.

Well, this thread has several videos demonstrating it as well as offers to teach it in person. Good grief, can it get more straight forward than that? Readers of this thread are asking "how do I" and "will you show me". That sounds like progress.

ps - I was disappointed you couldn't make the dives my last Saturday over there (it was the day scottsax did his 100th).

[Jenbowes]

Readers of this thread are asking "how do I" and "will you show me". That sounds like progress.

That would be me! Yay!

So, in brevity, how do we get the ball rolling to arrange a No Silt Education Dive Day?

[Burntchef]

if you dont know what a frog kick is how are you supposed to know? even at 100 dives.

Well, this thread has several videos demonstrating it as well as offers to teach it in person. Good grief, can it get more straight forward than that? Readers of this thread are asking "how do I" and "will you show me". That sounds like progress.

ps - I was disappointed you couldn't make the dives my last Saturday over there (it was the day scottsax did his 100th).

yes easy for those here , but again what about all the weekend warriors that dont belong to this site? they may have friends that do visit here and hopefully the lessons can find there way to them. maybe i am not making my point clearly, it sounds good in my head :shootself:

as far as sat, i have no idea what your talking about????

[airsix]

as far as sat, i have no idea what your talking about????

Saturday morning, March 21st. DIW and Les Davis. Fistiq invited you to dive with us but you didn't show. I was hoping you were going to make it.

Regarding the people not reading the thread: Hopefully there will be trickle-down. People here dive with people who aren't here. And if Lynne writes her article for NWDN that will reach thousands.

-Ben

[Sounder]

You can only reach so many people, and you have to start somewhere. I think this forum is a great place to start. Then perhaps a seminar (as has been mentioned), maybe a PSA type video (also mentioned), and an article in NW Dive News (yup). You talk about it, share the information, and hope for the best. I don't think that it's a worthless cause just because we can't reach every diver in the Puget Sound.

[Nwbrewer]

You're right, this won't help the weekend warriors and infrequent divers. But getting more people out there with improved buoyancy reduces the amount of silting at popular sites, and it gets more examples out there of how to do these things that the weekend warriors may ask questions of. As I said, as long as class continue to teach with students on their knees on the bottom, and flutter kick as the primary mode of transportation, the problem's not going away.

I get your point Howard, there's still going to be a lot of people out stirring up silt. Since I don't like diving in it, I try to stay away from places where there's going to be a lot, like C2 or Muk right off the silver cloud on the weekends. Teaching people how NOT to silt out a site increases my pool of preferred dive buddies though.

You've gotta start somewhere, so why not NWDC?

[Burntchef]

Saturday morning, March 21st. DIW and Les Davis. Fistiq invited you to dive with us but you didn't show. I was hoping you were going to make it.

-Ben

foggy memory but if it was one of the extremely rare weekend days i had off and i did not dive there must of been something major going on, free beer day, national pork day, in the gutter drinking jack day.

i pretty much have to beg for a weekend day off, give me plenty of notice and i will see what i can do. maybe a flutter kick race at muk

[Burntchef]

You're right, this won't help the weekend warriors and infrequent divers. But getting more people out there with improved buoyancy reduces the amount of silting at popular sites, and it gets more examples out there of how to do these things that the weekend warriors may ask questions of. As I said, as long as class continue to teach with students on their knees on the bottom, and flutter kick as the primary mode of transportation, the problem's not going away.

I get your point Howard, there's still going to be a lot of people out stirring up silt. Since I don't like diving in it, I try to stay away from places where there's going to be a lot, like C2 or Muk right off the silver cloud on the weekends. Teaching people how NOT to silt out a site increases my pool of preferred dive buddies though.

You've gotta start somewhere, so why not NWDC?

your right jake and i really do hope it works, its how i learned to frog kick by watching buddies and wanting to copy them. i guess calling divers lazy or its there choice that after 50 dives seems worthless to me. but thats just my opinion.

[Nwbrewer]

You're right, this won't help the weekend warriors and infrequent divers. But getting more people out there with improved buoyancy reduces the amount of silting at popular sites, and it gets more examples out there of how to do these things that the weekend warriors may ask questions of. As I said, as long as class continue to teach with students on their knees on the bottom, and flutter kick as the primary mode of transportation, the problem's not going away.

I get your point Howard, there's still going to be a lot of people out stirring up silt. Since I don't like diving in it, I try to stay away from places where there's going to be a lot, like C2 or Muk right off the silver cloud on the weekends. Teaching people how NOT to silt out a site increases my pool of preferred dive buddies though.

You've gotta start somewhere, so why not NWDC?

your right jake and i really do hope it works, its how i learned to frog kick by watching buddies and wanting to copy them. i guess calling divers lazy or its there choice that after 50 dives seems worthless to me. but thats just my opinion.

No doubt. I think most of the time it's lack of education, that's what I was driving at. How many people just in this thread thought silting was just part of diving? If you show them how NOT to do it, then it's their choice to silt, and my choice not to dive with them.

[Norris]

[Sounder]

i guess calling divers lazy or its there choice that after 50 dives seems worthless to me. but thats just my opinion.

I'm saying it's lazy when they know better and have been exposed to the alternative, but won't put the little effort it takes into learning. I'm not saying that for divers who never learned anything different and thought it was "just part of it."

There is a local instructor who teaches, as part of his section on dive planning and navigation, to plan your route so you don't have to come back through an area you already swam though because it'll be silted out. I think there are better things instructors could be teaching and I wish the silt-bombing instructor was the exception to the rule instead of the opposite. Obviously, from the stand point of a student who's never been exposed to anything else, this is going to sound like a great consideration to add into their dive planning and I'd expect his students to know nothing about non-silting techniques. They're not lazy, they're unaware... but we can raise awareness, one diver at a time.

Like Howard, this is just my opinion which we're both entitled to.

[airsix]

There is a local instructor who teaches, as part of his section on dive planning and navigation, to plan your route so you don't have to come back through an area you already swam though because it'll be silted out.

[Sounder]

There is a local instructor who teaches, as part of his section on dive planning and navigation, to plan your route so you don't have to come back through an area you already swam though because it'll be silted out.

It's true.

[Matt S.]

How about a sign... underwater.

Be considerate of other divers.
Use non-silting kicks. Learn
more at:
FrogKick.com

[spatman]

How about a sign... underwater.

Be considerate of other divers.
Use non-silting kicks. Learn
more at:
FrogKick.com

given our local viz, we'd need many signs at each dive site. partially due to people not frogkicking... :geek: