Northwest Dive Club

Damn, Pez. I really like living up here!

Pez7378 wrote:

GetWet wrote:Having watched this thread, I just want to post my support. There are so many examples of the damage non-native species do, I support eliminating them before they have a chance to wipe out the native species. Thanks. Melissa

I agree. Sorry folks. If you're from California, you'll have to go back home.

So I guess since I'm (currently) from Idaho, I'm okay, right????????

So has anyone seen this guy since labor day weekend?? No one I have spoken to has....

divergirl07 wrote:So has anyone seen this guy since labor day weekend?? No one I have spoken to has....

I think that lobster met some melted butter.

Ive been guessing that, but I keep looking anyway....

Hoo, boy! Quite a thread to come back to. Just a few things I'd like to add:
1. The issue of storing non-native critters like this in submerged pens is something we should ALL be concerned about. And this shouldn't just be things like Atlantic lobsters; it should include things like dungeness crab shipped in from Alaska. Some of the diseases that can be moved around this way can be devastating.
2. As a kid, E.O. Wilson (the world's leading authority on ants) may have been the first to discover fire ants when they invaded the U.S. He's still kicking himself for not wiping out the whole colony when he had the chance. By the time you study things and figure out that they might become a problem, it will likely be too late.
3. If lobsters became established in the PNW, it is possible they would have very big effects and it is hard to predict what those effects would be. For example, crabs are an essential part of their diet. It's hard to know how our local shellfish would cope with an unfamiliar predator- a large lobster is capable of crushing far bigger prey than are any of our local crustaceans. However, we do know that it is virtually impossible for lobsters to become established here. Why? Because there were repeated attempts to introduce them to the PNW in the early part of the last century. Railroad cars full of lobsters were shipped out to the west coast of BC and they were released in many areas. The released animals survived, but didn't reproduce. It turns out that female lobsters need a period of extremely cold water in the winter, and our waters just don't change that much in temperature throughout the year.

That's interesting about the attempted introduction and the cold water temps - I'm glad they didn't "take." Mother Nature is a strange gal and every once in a while you find a critter that adapts to the harsh surroundings it's in. With even the off-chance that it could happen, I'm still in the "kill'em all and let God sort'em out" camp.

Mmmm.... lobster....

So Greg, do you know anything about the legalities of storing lobsters (and any other non-natives) out in pens? Are restaurants really doing it, and do they have permits?

The mention of it in this thread is the first that I'd heard of it in regard to lobsters. DF&W would definitely not allow a university to hold imports in a pen or an open-system aquarium, but restaurants and seafood distributors don't seem to follow the same rules. Closed systems and chillers are expensive so I can see how it would be tempting for a restaurant located on the waterfront to do something like this.

FWIW,

In Oregon they are required to have closed systems for anything like this, they are certified by our DEQ. We have some live (commercial) fisheries which use state waters for holding fish and invertebrates caught within the state. If they hold stuff from other states they are required to close that part of the system and have it certified.

The oyster industry, of which you in WA have plenty of is a good example of how these rules are implemented and what goes wrong if they aren't followed... Health certificates must be issued for animals from other states to be released within the waters of Oregon (and probably WA too)...

The state here briefly investigated introducing lobsters many, many years ago. I believe ME got some Dungeness crab too... both did lab experiments and cooler heads prevailed.

Scott

I'm not a science guy... But not all invasive species are bad... check out this NYT article from a couple Tuesdays ago.

-Eric
(yes I believe everything I read in the Times)

Sockmonkey wrote:I'm not a science guy... But not all invasive species are bad... check out this NYT article from a couple Tuesdays ago.

-Eric
(yes I believe everything I read in the Times)

Yep. That pretty well sums up the whole question: is the status quo always the most preferrable situation? I doubt we're going to find an answer.

Hello all! Looks like it is time to restart this thread. I found this Maine Lobster tonight at Three tree, about 55-60ft down at the large tire pile. My first thought, as many have gone over in this thread, is that this was an invasive species, and needed to be removed. She was a female with a large quantity of eggs as well.

Here are some non-cell phone shots.

What? You're not going to let us argue about it first? Oh fer...

wow that would be cool to see

Mm...delicious non-native species......

Ha. If it is an invasive non native species, we will do our part in eradicating this threat should more appear....

Always glad to "step up to the plate" in the eradication of non-native species!!

So ththth's now at ttn and bring lobster sticks, gloves and spearpoles?

Way back when Greg Jensen said Atlantic lobsters need a period of cold water to breed. Any comments on the eggs on this one?

Judging from the color, the eggs looked like they were pretty well developed. I suspect the lobster was shipped in from the east coast already carrying them.
Female lobsters with eggs are not supposed to be harvested (on the east coast that is- out here, any of them are fair game so it's good that you took it). Many years ago I got a call from a local supermarket that had received a female with eggs, and wanted to get rid of it because some customers were complaining- they actually asked me to hurry and pick it up before KING 5 news got there. Fortunately I had a big, unoccupied tank at the time so went and got it from them.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if a store found itself in a similar situation and just chucked it in the Sound.

Haha... "Hurry! the Lobster Police are coming to raid our store! I can hear helicopters already!"

Saw one at Edmonds today.
Pic by my dive buddy Pat.

Oh man!!! Here we go again.