Northwest Dive Club

Drysuit heat? Anyone using it? Suggestions? Things to avoid?

I am again considering either a vest or a patco heater pad for winter. Salvo canister + 14Ah battery. 400gm thinsulate + argon just can't keep the old bones warm anymore :p

I have tried an early winters vest (15W?). I need more heat, 25 to 50W I'm guessing and less bulk. I would also like to plug into my boat's charging system, so 12V.

No firsthand experience, but I'm told these are pretty great:

http://www.golemgear.com/p-354-q-vest.aspx

Yeah unfortunately they are skyhigh pricewise. :( Although pricing out components individually for 2 heaters is not cheap either I am leaning that way for the "Aixsix factor" )

There are a few DIY systems on TDS but nothing that's taking my breath away.

I think Jakob is using impluse connectors on those so if they do end up comparable $$ I might be able to find a match for it to plug into my boat's electrical system. They make so many different styles its hard to know what matches. Might as well be warm zipping around!

A friend of mine dives with some kind of halfway DIY heated vest- I'm going to visit him tonight, I'll pick his brain a bit- I think he adapted a heated motorcycle or snowmobile vest somehow to a drysuit application......

Yeah I have seen various conversions. Unfortuantely the vests supposedly don't always like salty dampness and the wires can corrode. The patco pads are waterproof but of course concentrate the heat quite a bit. If you don't mind, ask which vest he's using and how its holding up.

Pricewise at least the gerbing brand vests http://www.gerbing.com/Products/Liners/ ... Liner.html
are only slightly more than the patco heating pads (last price list I have has them at $125 each, 25/35/or 50W choices)

CaptnJack wrote: I have tried an early winters vest (15W?). I need more heat, 25 to 50W I'm guessing and less bulk. I would also like to plug into my boat's charging system, so 12V.

Hi Richard,

We have an awesome drysuit heater. We call it the Dive Bum! We put a heater in it, and the cabin is VERY warm and popular in the winter. :occasion5:

Sorry, I'm not being very helpful, but just couldn't resist.

Pahhh! Real divers wear bikinis and have the wind in their hair!

CaptnJack wrote:Yeah I have seen various conversions. Unfortuantely the vests supposedly don't always like salty dampness and the wires can corrode. The patco pads are waterproof but of course concentrate the heat quite a bit. If you don't mind, ask which vest he's using and how its holding up.

I built one, although it's not installed on my suit at the moment. Was thinking about grabbing the replacement valve from Golem, so I don't have to punch a hole in my new(er) DUI suit...

They make aftermarket seat heating pads out of carbon fiber, which you can buy, and they're waterproof. They're designed to work on snowmobiles and motorcycle seats. I got a pair of pads for $85 that puts out 60 watts. For another $25, I picked up an Airsoft "Tactical Vest" from flea-Bay, removed the padding, since no one is going to pelt me with plastic BBs underwater, and installed the heater pads in their place.

I've got a couple of the old NiteRider canisters with a stash of four or five E/O cords lying around. It's just a function of getting the suit feed-through put together, but it'll give me a very warm vest at under $200 that's capable of real heat.

On land, hooked up to the bench power supply in the lab at home, it's damn toasty... you need somewhere around 50-75w underwater to take care of your heating needs. Some of the battery operated vests - the non-motorcycle ones sold with the lithium packs in th pockets - are too weak to do anything other than add another layer of fleece, really. If you do the math, they're good for 7-10 watts, total, which you generally won't notice.

CaptnJack wrote:Pahhh! Real divers wear bikinis and have the wind in their hair!

Dang... do I have to? I mean, I want to do what's right and all, and I'm pretty careful about using the right gear... but... but... I really don't think you want me in a Speedo, much less a bikini.

camerone wrote: They make aftermarket seat heating pads out of carbon fiber, which you can buy, and they're waterproof. They're designed to work on snowmobiles and motorcycle seats. I got a pair of pads for $85 that puts out 60 watts.

Ooooh now we're talking. Where can I find some of these type pads?

CaptnJack wrote:Drysuit heat? Anyone using it? Suggestions? Things to avoid?

I am again considering either a vest or a patco heater pad for winter. Salvo canister + 14Ah battery. 400gm thinsulate + argon just can't keep the old bones warm anymore :p

I have tried an early winters vest (15W?). I need more heat, 25 to 50W I'm guessing and less bulk. I would also like to plug into my boat's charging system, so 12V.

Have you thought about a Weezle undergarment Extreme plus along with Argon, should keep you warm (hot) and doesn't need batteries, charging or holes in a dry suit. talk to John Rawlings about trying one out. I am going to pick up one, I dive the Extreme now and couldn't be happier. i even stay warm with my leaking suit on every dive, and i mean every dive. You are welcome to dive it if you like. Much nicer than 400g thinsulate, that's what i used to dive.

I would like new undies and definately checking out stuff that's less brittle and longer wearing than the DUI 400 thinsulate. Nevermind the cut being potato sack-like. Although my wife already dives a Weezle Extreme plus and she was still cold last winter/spring. One of these heaters is for her.

CaptnJack wrote:

camerone wrote: They make aftermarket seat heating pads out of carbon fiber, which you can buy, and they're waterproof. They're designed to work on snowmobiles and motorcycle seats. I got a pair of pads for $85 that puts out 60 watts.

Ooooh now we're talking. Where can I find some of these type pads?

http://www.sportsimportsllc.com/product ... sil-02.htm

For a while, they were selling through Amazon.com, too, as a merchant. Even though it was $5 more, I bought that way, as I didn't trust their web site, and Amazon has an "a-z guarantee" if things went wrong. They shipped fine, though. Unfortunately, they're no longer available in that channel. These are the same guys, and if I had to do it again, I would order direct from 'em.

This was the Tac Vest I used (cheap, and once you remove the stupid foam pads, rugged cordura.) A few minutes with a decent sewing machine can work wonders. http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-Hawk-Down-Bod ... dZViewItem The original plan was to just sew a vest with 1mm neoprene and some 100g polar fleece to custom fit. For the price, the vest modification was a LOT less trouble and hassle.

-C

Nice. I'm looking at the dual and single pads nows. So how did you deal with the hi-off-low switch? Is that inside your drysuit or did you remove it and achieve a "hi only" setting?

CaptnJack wrote:Nice. I'm looking at the dual and single pads nows. So how did you deal with the hi-off-low switch? Is that inside your drysuit or did you remove it and achieve a "hi only" setting?

Just so you know, waterproof is a bit of a misnomer on these items. Water-resistant is a better word choice...which leads me to point out that you can actually separate the pad layers and replace the wire with something not so stiff, which makes things more comfortable. When you do that, remove the switch and set it to permanently high. It's four wires in to the primary pad, and two wires from the primary to the secondary.

As a safety measure, even though carbon fiber heating is self-regulating (unlike wire units which, if they short, will get hotter and hotter and burn you), the manufacturer also includes a small thermistor to provide a thermal cutoff if things get too hot. If you're adventurous, you can also dispense with it, but I don't recommend it.

The goal is just two-wire pass through (+V and Gnd) through the suit.

Yeah cutting down to 2 wires is what I was hoping was do-able. I don't need some bulky wiring harness stuffed in my suit. I plan on using a standard light canister with UW switch, so any problems (including overheating!) and I can switch it off.

I think I'll end up with about a 9Ah nimh pack to balance burntime against cost/size.

Thanks for the tips, very helpful.

here is the inside scoop, and you didn't heer it from me. This is for real. DUI is currently working on a battery ran insulation suit. It will plug into a canister pack. And it is a insulation jump suit that has the heater built into it. Something like that. If you are patient, you may want that. It's all I can tell you.

CaptnJack wrote:Yeah cutting down to 2 wires is what I was hoping was do-able. I don't need some bulky wiring harness stuffed in my suit. I plan on using a standard light canister with UW switch, so any problems (including overheating!) and I can switch it off.

I think I'll end up with about a 9Ah nimh pack to balance burntime against cost/size.

Thanks for the tips, very helpful.

You're more than welcome.

If you're building your own can, you can do 11Ah or 14Ah of NiMH pretty easily and cheaply, esp. compared to LiPoly. They don't really fit the commercial canisters, but since you're DIY, anyway, not a big deal. I would offer the suggestion that you replace the standard On/Off switch on the light can with an on-off-on DPDT switch in the same package. Center would be off, one way would be light, the other way would be light + heater, as long as you don't mind the re-strike of your light under water. With an E/O or other waterproof connector, that'd keep you from having to wear two cans underwater and give you the flexibilty to use one or the other.

The heater is roughly a five amp draw, so a 10 Ah pack is roughly 1 hour light (24w hid) + 1 hour light-battery together. That's pretty decent for most dives around here. With Eric, I think we tend to do most of the shore diving here in the 90-115 minute range per dive, so that would more than cover it.

camerone wrote:If you're building your own can, you can do 11Ah or 14Ah of NiMH pretty easily and cheaply, esp. compared to LiPoly. They don't really fit the commercial canisters, but since you're DIY, anyway, not a big deal. I would offer the suggestion that you replace the standard On/Off switch on the light can with an on-off-on DPDT switch in the same package. Center would be off, one way would be light, the other way would be light + heater, as long as you don't mind the re-strike of your light under water. With an E/O or other waterproof connector, that'd keep you from having to wear two cans underwater and give you the flexibilty to use one or the other.

The heater is roughly a five amp draw, so a 10 Ah pack is roughly 1 hour light (24w hid) + 1 hour light-battery together. That's pretty decent for most dives around here. With Eric, I think we tend to do most of the shore diving here in the 90-115 minute range per dive, so that would more than cover it.

I'm thinking I'll end up with a salvo can, just because they are easy and available. 9Ah safely gives me 90mins without overdischarging the battery. Beyond that (unlikely, but maybe for 2nd dive) and I'll just get a 2nd battery. I already have a 10.4Ah lion Salvo light and I don't see it as a big deal to have 2 cans.

I'm using Impluse UW connectors, those are on order already. One suit bulkhead, one for the canister, one coming off the boat's battery. This last one basically gives me a super toasty surface interval or ride back to the dock.

I have some leftover 100gm fleece here in the house, so I think I'll end up making my own vest. The ebay ones are cheap enough backups if I screw up the fabric I have lying around.

CaptnJack wrote: I have some leftover 100gm fleece here in the house, so I think I'll end up making my own vest. The ebay ones are cheap enough backups if I screw up the fabric I have lying around.

If you're not already a fan, you should check out Seattle Fabrics, which is on Aurora one or two blocks north of 85th, on the east side of the street. They've got all kinds of great fabrics that are hard to find - polar fleece (one or two way stretch, all weights), thinsulate in various thicknesses, neoprene, gore-tex, ripstop nylon, 1000 denier cordura, velcro, webbing - dive or otherwise, etc, and lots of patterns. I made some non-heated booties with 100g fleece, 400g thinsulate, and an outer nylon shell from the supplies I got there, along with a highly modified pattern. You may find their supplies and cheap patterns helpful if you're going to sew your own vest.http://www.seattlefabrics.com is their online presence.

If you're using the carbon fiber pads, you'll want a heavier carrier than just 100 gram fleece. My plan was to use 1mm neoprene (which can still be sewn on any better grade of home machine or light industrial unit, as long as you don't want blind stitching, like a wetsuit). Sandwich the pad between the 1mm neoprene and a layer of 100g fleece on the inside, against my body. The neoprene would be a lot more structural, and the fleece a lot more comfy.

The one thing I don't like about the tactical vest approach is that cordura isn't the softest fabric.

camerone wrote:If you're not already a fan, you should check out Seattle Fabrics, which is on Aurora one or two blocks north of 85th, on the east side of the street. They've got all kinds of great fabrics that are hard to find - polar fleece (one or two way stretch, all weights), thinsulate in various thicknesses, neoprene, gore-tex, ripstop nylon, 1000 denier cordura, velcro, webbing - dive or otherwise, etc, and lots of patterns.

I just discovered Seattle Fabrics this weekend! What an amazing place!

scottsax wrote:I just discovered Seattle Fabrics this weekend! What an amazing place!

Yah - if they only had stainless hardware (buckles, tri-glides, etc) instead of only the plastics or zinc ones, I'd never leave.

camerone wrote:

scottsax wrote:I just discovered Seattle Fabrics this weekend! What an amazing place!

Yah - if they only had stainless hardware (buckles, tri-glides, etc) instead of only the plastics or zinc ones, I'd never leave.

I was sad about the zinc hardware, too!