Needing a CCR fix

[Burntchef]

joining rebreatherworld.com should be a great way to start. i'm sure josh and the others have some books or articles for you. good luck on the transition.

[Ken G]

You might want to read Mel Clarks new book on CCR diving. It has a lot of good info in it and might be a good place to start



Rebreathers Simplified

A Complete Guide to Choosing, Understanding and Diving a Closed Circuit Rebreather


Chapter 1: Introduction
Chapter 2: Why bother?
Chapter 3: Rebreather Design and how it works
Chapter 4: Selecting the right CCR for you
Chapter 5: Generic Rebreather preparation and post dive steps
Chapter 6: CCR Skills
Chapter 7: Survival Operations
Chapter 8: Physiology
Chapter 9: Dive Planning

Appendix section that contains for each rebreather following:
- Picture build check sheet
- Build check sheet
- Pre-dive check sheet
- Post dive check sheet

The appendix section:

Appendix 1 Evolution
Appendix 2 Inspiration
Appendix 3 KISS Classic
Appendix 4 KISS Sport
Appendix 5 Megalodon APECs
Appendix 6 Megalodon COPIS
Appendix 7 O2ptima FX
Appendix 8 Pelagian
Appendix 9 rEvo

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebreather-library/

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebreath ... -articles/ Another good source of info



http://www.customrebreathers.com/Rebrea ... asion.html

[Dmitchell]

2nd ^^^^^^^

[Joshua Smith]

3rd. Mel's book is one of a kind- "Rebreathers Simplified" by Bozniak is also good, but dated. Also- there's going to be an oportunity to try out different rebreathers at the Dive Expo in Tacoma in the pool. You won't be able to get deeper than 4 feet, but it will let you breathe underwater without making bubbles for the first time....

[Gill Envy]

I'd be happy to sell you my "Rebreathers Simplified" by Bozniak, it's a good read. Mel's books are more contemporary and well written. Read it all! "Shadow divers" may help you pass the time as well. I'm generally up for a pint at the Latona pub, picking people's brains for a wide variety of perspectives also helps quell the jonesing. Consider a used unit, you may not have to wait as long as you think, there are some deals out there in the 3-5K range.
g

[Joshua Smith]

Like George said- there have been some pretty sweet deals in the used market over the last month or two- if you can narrow your choices down, I'll keep my eyes peeled for you.

(Hint:After studying the pros and cons of all the models, and weighing price and quality, considering the engineering, and all the other factors; it really boils down to whether to get the manual or electronic Meg..... and deciding whether or not to spring for a custom color on the can! )

[John Rawlings]

(Hint:After studying the pros and cons of all the models, and weighing price and quality, considering the engineering, and all the other factors; it really boils down to whether to get the manual or electronic Meg..... and deciding whether or not to spring for a custom color on the can! )

OR.....if you want a CCR that is actually both simple to use and maintain, with a safety record that is second to none, get a KISS! :luv: The Canadian exchange rate with the US Dollar makes the KISS CCR line particularly attractive right now - new OR used. http://www.kissrebreathers.com/home.html

Frickin' Meg-Users.... :angry:

- John

[Curt McNamee]

I'd be happy to sell you my "Rebreathers Simplified" by Bozniak, it's a good read. Mel's books are more contemporary and well written. Read it all! "Shadow divers" may help you pass the time as well. I'm generally up for a pint at the Latona pub, picking people's brains for a wide variety of perspectives also helps quell the jonesing. Consider a used unit, you may not have to wait as long as you think, there are some deals out there in the 3-5K range.
g

Just a slight correction, it's "Rebreathers Simplified" By Dr Mel Clark and "Mastering Rebreathers" by Jeff Bozanic

[Gill Envy]

Just a slight correction, it's "Rebreathers Simplified" By Dr Mel Clark and "Mastering Rebreathers" by Jeff Bozanic[/quote]

thanks curt, must be the "baby brain"!
g

[Joshua Smith]

I made a diagram that can help you compare the KISS and the Meg:


vs.

[Joshua Smith]

And the Revo:

Inspiration/ Evolution:

[Dmitchell]

Do we really have to go here?

What if I have a but have envy and no desire to have a or a .

If only I could sell the for what a would cost!

[Joshua Smith]

Do we really have to go here?

What if I have a but have envy and no desire to have a or a .

If only I could sell the for what a would cost!

Well, at least you aren't stuck with an :angry: p2ima!

[Curt McNamee]

You might want to read Mel Clarks new book on CCR diving. It has a lot of good info in it and might be a good place to start

Perfect! I just sent Curt an email so I can get my grubby paws on a copy. Thanks!

Your manual went out in the mail today, enjoy the read.

[Joshua Smith]

Nope- I dove a KISS in the pool once, but I've always been a Meg diver. The KISS is a great unit, though, and the price is pretty sweet right now.

The first thing you should look at is: do you want a manual, or electronic rebreather? That will help narrow it down a lot. Then, you should start looking at design- especially stuff like where the counterlungs are placed (back mount vs. over-the-shoulder), and stuff like maintenance, scrubber options, and so forth. If you ever want to come by the house sometime, and take mine apart and put it back together with me, let me know- I can talk about rebreathers for hours and hours......

[dsteding]

Okay, why back versus OTS counterlungs? I assume work of breathing and trim are two of the issues--but what are the specifics?

[Dmitchell]

Okay, why back versus OTS counterlungs? I assume work of breathing and trim are two of the issues--but what are the specifics?

Work of breathing is the big one but position in the water helps that out. The rEvo is supposed to have really good WOB for BMCL. FMCL's generally have better WOB.

On the Kiss if you are in a slight head up trim the WOB is fine but if you get on your back or vertical it's harder.

The counter issue is that with BMCL, the front is cleaner like it is on OC.

With the MEG it's really tough if not darn near impossible to flood the loop due to the design of the CL's. With the Kiss it's pretty easy.

They all have pro's and cons.

DM

[Joshua Smith]

Yep. I still miss my old OC harness with D rings that were easy to find. But the Meg breathes sweet, and I almost never find so much as a single drop of water in the scrubber can

[John Rawlings]

All of the units mentioned are great ones - we live in a time at which fine technology is readily available. However, each unit has strengths and drawbacks, and each one has certain aspects about it that individual divers will prefer over the others.

- John

[Joshua Smith]

Nope- I dove a KISS in the pool once, but I've always been a Meg diver. The KISS is a great unit, though, and the price is pretty sweet right now.

The first thing you should look at is: do you want a manual, or electronic rebreather? That will help narrow it down a lot. Then, you should start looking at design- especially stuff like where the counterlungs are placed (back mount vs. over-the-shoulder), and stuff like maintenance, scrubber options, and so forth. If you ever want to come by the house sometime, and take mine apart and put it back together with me, let me know- I can talk about rebreathers for hours and hours......

My opinions may all change after reading Mel's book, but I think I'd prefer manual. I don't need any help slipping into auto-pilot during a dive. =) FMCL's do make things a bit messy up front (this coming from a single-tank OC diver), and the rEvo seems to do a great job of keeping things tidy. I also like how the rEvo can be configured for manual, semi-auto and full-auto modes. Of course, it's probably one of the more expensive units, so this might be a moot point for me. This is all based on the rEvo spread in ADM (thanks for the sample mags John!), and I know next to nothing about the other units.

I'm way more concerned with reliability, usability and serviceability (in that order) than how cleanly everything is laid out, and I hope I can have an opportunity to try out several different units to see what they're really like in the water before shelling out the big bones. When I get closer to a purchase, I'd love to bring a 6-pack over to your place and listen to you talk about the Meg and where it's taken you!

If you like manual, that narrows it down quite a lot:
rEvo, KISS, and COPIS Meg, basically. (There is also supposedly a weird creature called the open revolution apocalypse coming out soon.....it's a long story, but let's just say that the jury's still out on that one.)

rEvo is surprisingly affordable, at the moment, along with the KISS. (Something to do with foriegn currency devaluation, yadda yadda....)

Back mounted counterlungs are standard on the rEvo and KISS, and now ISC is about to make them an option on the MEG, which is pretty cool.

They're all good, solid units, and all of them have been taken to depths none of us are likely to dive.

I'm pretty sure you can try-dive all 3 of these at the Dive and Travel expo. I must say, though- you really just can't get a good idea of what they're like in a pool. It's cool and interesting, but it's just not even close to the real thing.

So, you're in a difficult position as a first time CCR buyer- you have a big, important, expensive decision to make, and you can't really test drive any of them. What I did was to ask as many rebreather divers as I could, as many questions as I could think of. And I read a LOT. One side effect of the problem (picking a unit that you can't try first, costs a lot, and will likely be the only one you ever dive) is that almost every CCR diver believes passionately that THEIR rebreather is the best one. (Which is true, if you happen to buy a Meg.... :roll: )

Seriously- drop me a line, I will be more than happy to walk you through a pre-dive cycle on the Meg.

[ljjames]

Just to confuse things a bit, the megalodon BMCL are coming soon... I saw a set in the water a few weeks back, Jerry has posted about them as well on rebreather world. I really really like the looks of them. It will all depend on how they breath. They are unlike anything else on the market that i know of, and are REALLY cool. My best guess is that they may not be quite as good WOB as the megalodon FMCL but will be better than many of the standard BMCL's on the market.

going from a hog rig to a FMCL kit was like a little personal hell the first dive, and I thought "WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING THIS FOR!!!!!", but after one dive, figured out that the load bearing D-ring on the counterlungs actually works like a charm for hooking your stage bottle to. After one dive it 'clicked' and I didn't even notice the lungs. So much so that first dive i was like "Bring on the BMCL" and ready to snatch them off Jerry's kit, but after the second dive, well... Like i said, I hardly noticed them anymore

If you are coming from a jacket BC, you'll likely not notice the FMCL as much different at all.

If i'd done just the 'demo' in the pool, I probably would not have made the 'jump'. If I had not had my second absolutely amazing dive, I'd still be questioning my sanity.

It really is a leap of faith. And just cause your pools sessions are easy cheezy, and you are all 'slick' with the kit, don't give up if your first 'real' dive is really kinda suck. buoyancy and trim didn't end up being the issue that many people describe, for me it was mostly an issue with learning how to fly the 'breather instead of it flying me. i'd get dialed in for a min or two, and then one thing or another would take over again (my issue was too much volume in the counterlung) and I'd over correct. i was also not used to "seeing" my PO2 and the first time I looked down and saw 1.4 it totally made me go "OH SHIT!!!" and overcompensate with dil. Then I'd be below my set point and hear the solenoid go off and go "OH SHIT!!!" and add O2. back and forth and back and forth. lucky by dive 2 I dropped about 8 lbs of lead I didn't need, got the lung volume into the correct zone, and voila! I was flying the meg! and it rocked! and the fish acted WAY different than I expected them to.....

Think (realistically) about what kind of dives you are gonna do with your kit. That should influence eCCR vs mCCR at least a little. Deep, Sightseeing, Photog, Recreational, wreck, cave, whatever... But being honest with yourself about where your diving is really going is helpful Sometimes that changes, too... But I don't think (in my limited knowledge) that any one rebreather is perfect for EVERY single dive. I'm going meg, with it's very modular set up, so I can have a 'deep' and a 'shallow' kit.

[Dmitchell]

Good post, I agree that it is a leap of faith though I disagree on the eccr vs. mccr thing. It's not the issue it's made out to be. Gillenvy can probably speak to that (he's had both) but there are some folks doing some serious stuff on mccr. Remembering to periodically push a button isn't the big deal it's made out to be.

If you have any length of history on RBW, you know that there has been a general lean from eccr to mccr over the past few years.

Yes, I'm an mccr guy and though I like the rEvo, The KISS is serving me very well and there are things about the COPIS that I really like as well. I wouldn't hesitate at a chance to dive an eccr, I just wouldn't buy one - right now....

[John Rawlings]

Just to confuse things a bit, the megalodon BMCL are coming soon... I saw a set in the water a few weeks back, Jerry has posted about them as well on rebreather world. I really really like the looks of them. It will all depend on how they breath. They are unlike anything else on the market that i know of, and are REALLY cool. My best guess is that they may not be quite as good WOB as the megalodon FMCL but will be better than many of the standard BMCL's on the market.

going from a hog rig to a FMCL kit was like a little personal hell the first dive, and I thought "WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING THIS FOR!!!!!", but after one dive, figured out that the load bearing D-ring on the counterlungs actually works like a charm for hooking your stage bottle to. After one dive it 'clicked' and I didn't even notice the lungs. So much so that first dive i was like "Bring on the BMCL" and ready to snatch them off Jerry's kit, but after the second dive, well... Like i said, I hardly noticed them anymore

If you are coming from a jacket BC, you'll likely not notice the FMCL as much different at all.

If i'd done just the 'demo' in the pool, I probably would not have made the 'jump'. If I had not had my second absolutely amazing dive, I'd still be questioning my sanity.

It really is a leap of faith. And just cause your pools sessions are easy cheezy, and you are all 'slick' with the kit, don't give up if your first 'real' dive is really kinda suck. buoyancy and trim didn't end up being the issue that many people describe, for me it was mostly an issue with learning how to fly the 'breather instead of it flying me. i'd get dialed in for a min or two, and then one thing or another would take over again (my issue was too much volume in the counterlung) and I'd over correct. i was also not used to "seeing" my PO2 and the first time I looked down and saw 1.4 it totally made me go "OH SHIT!!!" and overcompensate with dil. Then I'd be below my set point and hear the solenoid go off and go "OH SHIT!!!" and add O2. back and forth and back and forth. lucky by dive 2 I dropped about 8 lbs of lead I didn't need, got the lung volume into the correct zone, and voila! I was flying the meg! and it rocked! and the fish acted WAY different than I expected them to.....

Think (realistically) about what kind of dives you are gonna do with your kit. That should influence eCCR vs mCCR at least a little. Deep, Sightseeing, Photog, Recreational, wreck, cave, whatever... But being honest with yourself about where your diving is really going is helpful Sometimes that changes, too... But I don't think (in my limited knowledge) that any one rebreather is perfect for EVERY single dive. I'm going meg, with it's very modular set up, so I can have a 'deep' and a 'shallow' kit.

Oh, yeah! VERY good post! I very MUCH remember my first salt water dive with my KISS CCR. After years and years of OC diving absolutely EVERYTHING felt different to me and I felt like a completely clueless jackass! I was wondering if I had made a very expensive mistake! To my pleasant surprise, though, just like Laura, it somehow "clicked" for me after a couple of dives as my mind adapted to the different feel and response of my equipment.

As a photographer that deals with a lot of equipment, I very much prefer the back-mounted counterlungs as I do not like having all of that clutter in my chest area getting in the way. Even when I was an OC diver I rejected the vest-type BC's for the same reason. The only time that I even think about it (BMCL) as a problem (and even then it is merely a mild annoyance) is if I have chosen to to do a long surface swim on my back.

I'm intrigued that the Meg will soon be available with BMCL. Leon seems to be covering all of the bases. Having options available is, I think, a sound business decision on his part.

When selecting the unit that you will buy, you need to think both long and hard about each of the CCRs available, and about YOU. The best unit for you just might not be the one that was best for Josh, Laura, Mel, or me. As others have said, closely examine your interests, skills, tendencies and personality. By this I mean try to discover which unit will best fit those aspects of you. If you are fascinated with intricate things and love to "tinker", some units would be good for you while others would not. If you don't have a mechanical/technical bone in your body and prefer simplicity, some units would be good for you and others would not. If there is a problem with the unit, is it easily repaired in the field or must it be sent back to the manufacturer? Is the unit easily and readily adaptable by the user, or must it pretty much be left "as is"? The CCRs that have been mentioned here in this thread are the "survivors" - each of them is a fine unit proven with hundreds of divers around the world and capable of doing whatever you want it to do. If you find the one that is a "best fit" for you, that in and of itself will enhance the capabilities of your unit and you as a diver.

- John

[John Rawlings]

This is all based on the rEvo spread in ADM (thanks for the sample mags John!), and I know next to nothing about the other units.

Well, since the rEvo article in ADM was of such interest, here are links to ADM articles from the RBW archives on the other units available:

Classic KISS CCR: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/kiss-cla ... c-ccr.html

Sport KISS CCR: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/kiss-cla ... t-ccr.html

Megalodon eCCR: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/megalodo ... -15-a.html

The ADM articles on the Evolution and Copis Meg don't appear to have been "re-printed" on RBW yet, but here are some RBW articles on them:

Evolution: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/inspirat ... eview.html

Copis Meg: http://www.rebreatherworld.com/megalodo ... lodon.html

Happy reading!

John

[Curt McNamee]

Hey John, that should be "rEvo" article