Dive Computers

[Scuba Skaughtie]

So here's another question for you all:

I am a new diver who plans on doing mostly cold water diving (North Sound and Hood Canal mainly). What type of dive computer am I looking for? I read the descriptions and features on all the computers and really am not sure what I actually need or what is overkill. I mean, do I really need to be able to integrate my bluetooth headset? Is it nessesary that the gaget that tells me how long I get to keep breathing be able to switch back and forth between Sports Center and Sea Hunt? I mean, how much is too much? I would like to be able to download my dive profiles and SAC info but in the end I am a new diver and don't really know what I NEED.

Thank you for your advice.

[whatevah]

A few thoughts that might help you some...

I don't think there's any point in buying a computer that won't handle nitrox these days. In fact, while you may not think you'll ever need it, there are computers available that handle multiple gases (in one dive) that really don't cost any more than the single gas per dive models - might be worth having just to be future-proof.

I like being able to download my dive profiles to a home computer - it's a nice feature that you might like someday if not right now. Most computers offer this capability these days, so consider making sure the computer you get can do it - even if you don't buy the cable/software right away. Check to be sure you can get software that works with your home computer's operating system.

Ergonomics - make sure the display is clear (big enough for you to see easily without ambiguity) and that it has some kind of backlighting so you can see it without shining your dive light on it every time. My dive computer's backlighting misbehaved years ago so I pulled it apart and removed that part of the circuitry. Sometimes I get really annoyed at having to light up the display with my dive light all the time - it's a hassle when my hands are already full and conditions aren't the best. I like computers that have two or three buttons - cheaper models with just one button tend to require a lot of pressing and waiting to get to the functionality you want.

After that it really comes down to whether you like a wrist mount computer or a console computer and whether you want air integration. Most people seem to like the wrist computers - I prefer a console computer myself. It's a personal preference thing. If you're diving a single gas per dive air integration can be nice. If you do it with a wrist computer that has a wireless sender unit on your regulators first stage, that costs more, and it gets really expensive if you want to do it for multiple different gases per dive.

Finally, there's the user interface - the computer needs to be intuitive for you to use. Try a bunch at a shop or check out other divers' computers to see which is easiest for you to figure out and operate.

[fmerkel]

If you are new and diving here for awhile you have time to think about it. You really don't need a computer at all for awhile. Most new divers will run out of air and get cold long before they hit anywhere near deco.
If you are going to be gung ho, do 2-3 dives/day both days of the weekend that changes the considerations as you'll build up some N2. Same for tropical diving where you can rack up some bottom time.
A bottom timer/watch along with your depth gauge, air gauge, and charts are all that is really necessary.

IMO the download package for scuba computers is a real gouge, it should be included at the asking price. I think this makes an attractive and viable option and works well for AFTER the dive for the same or less than the download asking price:
http://reefnet.ca/products/sensus/

[LCF]

I agree -- Nitrox capability adds very little, if any, cost to a computer, and Nitrox is awfully nice to have for multiple dive/multiple day trips.

Readability is extremely important to me -- I had the awful experience once of discovering I could not read the computer I was using in the dark (numbers too small, even when lit) and being in midwater with no depth information is not fun. When you are evaluating readability, make sure you take the computer into a room you can make dark, because around here, even day dives are low light, and your eyes can focus much better in bright sunlight than in gloom.

Being able to download to a home computer is awfully nice, once you get tired of buying log book pages. I prefer the computers with a direct connection to the IR interfaces, but one of my favorite computers (the Aladin Tech 2G) uses IR. It makes up for it with having the best logging software I've seen

Fancy stuff like digital compasses is far from necessary (if it's even useful). In fact, it's my opinion that it is not at all worth it to pay for air integration, when a simple pressure gauge does the same thing and doesn't cost the couple hundred dollars that air integration does (or more, if you use a wrist gauge with a transmitter). My husband would disagree with me.

One final point, if you are considering a wrist unit: Straps and buckles can be hard to manage with thick gloves on, and our heavy exposure protection compresses quite a bit underwater. For me, if a gauge can't fit in a Deep Sea Supply boot, or otherwise be affixed to my warm with a bungie setup, I'm not buying it. I like the elastic, so the gauge doesn't get loose and slip or spin at depth.

[doug7377]

ill keep it simpl if i was to go off and get a new computer today it would come down to the air- integrated oceanic pro plus 2 with compass and quick disconnect for under $900.00 or the same one i have right now which is the uwatec Galileo Luna wrist mount with the transmitter.

that my 2 cents

[Sounder]

With gauges there are really two schools of thought for recreational diving - bottom timer only or computer-generated decompression monitoring (for recreational diving).

Bottom-timer-only diving uses a couple different ways to keep track of staying within no-deco limits for recreational diving. The practice is used by many people on this board and it generally starts with a "starting point" of time and depth, and then easily allows you to make adjustments as your dive dictates. It also works for any gas with a couple easy adjustments. There is a great article about how it's done here: http://dir-diver.com/en/knowledge/min_deco_table.html If you were to decide bottom timers are the way to want to go, you can often save a lot of money. There are some bottom timers now which allow you to download your dives too.

Computer-calculated/monitored deco (or no-deco-limits) is the other school of thought. This is where you follow the instructions of your computer and/or stay within the "bounds" of no-decompression time as the computer tells you. I agree that if you're going to purchase a computer, buy one with nitrox capacity. Nitrox is definitely mainstream now and has almost made air-only computers obsolete. I agree with Lynne that air-integration is unnecessary, and can be a hassle, but others have the opposite opinion. It does add a bit more complexity and set-up, but it's also convenient to have your pressure on your wrist where it's easily viewable. On that note, I also much prefer wrist-mounted gauges to console ones.

Interface is key - having a computer you can actually use, and practice with when you're not diving to ensure you're proficient with it, is very important. Some computers are very intuitive and others can be rather challenging to operate. The best thing to do here is to try them out yourself.

Readability is also key - you've got your gauge to provide you with information, so make sure you can read that information. Back-lit gauges are helpful, large numbers and font are really nice, and the entrance of OLED displays has really taken readability to the next level.

I have several different computers and bottom timers you're welcome to try out - in fact, we can take them all down for a dive at the same time so you can see them side-by-side. You can play with them at the surface and then do the same underwater. I do work for Liquivision Products, a company that makes dive computers and gauges, but I'm happy to show you several different options and will try not to be too biased.

Shoot me a PM and let's go diving.

[Dusty2]

So far some really good info without pushing any particular computer. One of the reasons is we all know that no matter which computer we push someone else will hate it. I too would say get the nitrox feature. Most people end up going the nitrox route sooner or later and even if you don't it is a resale feature that is almost required should you decide to upgrade later. I too prefer console mount. Wrist mounts can be a hassle if you get dry gloves and such and I prefer to have all my critical info in one spot. Air integration is a waste and adds a failure point that can abort your dive for several reasons. A bad thing if you payed for a multi tank dive boat trip and you realize after you've left the dock that your battery is low or something else has happened that renders your computer useless. SPG's don't fail, computers can. As LCF said chose one that is easy to read underwater in low light. Also some try to put to much on the screen at one time. You want to be able to get all the necessary info at a glance. Lastly some computers are known for being very conservative. This is not a good thing especially if they lock you out for a minor violation. IMO I would avoid the Suunto computers for this reason. Also forget all the trick features. They just cost you money for features that really are not needed. Make sure the battery is diver replaceable. Some computers require a trip to the service center to replace the battery. Single button computers are a PITA. Multi gas is a feature that you will only need if you go tech which would probably mean a newer better more expensive computer anyway.

So, for starters a three hundred dollar computer is just fine and will probably last you for years. There is no shame in buying used either as long as you know you can trust the seller.

[airsix]

I like the things that have been said so far including the spectrum of preferences discussed without any "mine is best" comments. Personally my vote is for a wrist mounted nitrox computer without gas integration. Integration will add hundreds of dollars to the cost and isn't a critical feature. If it were free would I take it? Sure. Would I pay extra for it? No. Depth and time are the priority info and I like them on my wrist where I can verify with a quick glance. I would say most divers (myself included) cannot perform a proper ascent without monitoring depth/time closely so I want that info right in front of me (wrist), not tucked away somewhere on the end of a SPG hose. As you gain diving experience you'll discover you don't need to monitor remaining gas pressure with as much frequency as you do time/depth. You'll develop an awareness of your consumption rate at time/depth and a periodic check of remaining tank pressure on a clipped-off SPG will satisfy the need 100%. I don't mean you'll ignore pressure. You just won't have to check as often because you'll learn to mentally keep track of it based on your time/depth and planning, with periodic SPG checks as a way to verify you're on-track.

[Raydar]

Fine, I'll be the one with a specific recommendation.

Suunto Vyper (or the equivalent) - Air, nitrox, and gauge modes. Been around for a while. Has a good track record. User replaceable batteries.

For a new diver (who may or may not remain in the sport), you don't need the fancy stuff.

[Burntchef]

dive rite duo is another great computer, cheap, easy to use and read, replaceable batteries, and a great gage computer if you ever go down that road.

[Scuba Skaughtie]

Thank you all for the info. It will help me narrow the field down. I agree that I need to go play with the computers myself and get a feel for them. I just want to make sure that I know what I am looking for and at.

[airsix]

One more thing from me. The more you dive the less you will want "extra features". Most important to me: reliability, readability, uncluttered display. I HATE cluttered displays.

[spatman]

The more you dive the less you will want "extra features".

that's really subjective. or a bad attempt at a jedi mind trick.

[CaptnJack]

The more you dive the less you will want "extra features".

that's really subjective. or a bad attempt at a jedi mind trick.

I guess tetris is a "must have" for you then?

[spatman]

The more you dive the less you will want "extra features".

that's really subjective. or a bad attempt at a jedi mind trick.

I guess tetris is a "must have" for you then?

Actually, I have Angry Birds and Doodlejump on mine.

[Waynne Fowler]

Video games on a dive computer?
I go underwater to do those things I can't do on the couch.

Do peep's really play those games while diving?
I'm afraid I'd not dig my buddy being distracted
underwater by a video game.

[citycatred]

The more you dive the less you will want "extra features".

that's really subjective. or a bad attempt at a jedi mind trick.

I guess tetris is a "must have" for you then?

Actually, I have Angry Birds and Doodlejump on mine.

Spatty, would you like to explain the Angry Birds obsession to me? I just don't get the point of shooting birds at pigs......

[spatman]

Spatty, would you like to explain the Angry Birds obsession to me? I just don't get the point of shooting birds at pigs......

truth is, i got bored of angry birds pretty quickly.

[citycatred]

Spatty, would you like to explain the Angry Birds obsession to me? I just don't get the point of shooting birds at pigs......

truth is, i got bored of angry birds pretty quickly.

Glad to know I wasn't the only one

[Peter Guy]

I do have some pretty strong views on dive computers and, in fact, I normally dive with 3 of them -- two in guage mode, one in computer mode -- and the two in gauge mode are air integrated!

Why 3? Because I have them -- picked up over time for different reasons and just used.

I believe there has been some mis-information provided -- not big misinformation but wrong in any event.

a. Air Integration Computers provide an additional failure point. No. ALL devices, whether mechanical or electrical, can, and will, fail underwater. The comment that having an AI computer that has a battery go bad will cost you dives is (or may be) true -- but that is also true of NON- AI computers or bottom timers. The battery goes bad, the instrument fails -- end of dive unless you have a backup.

b. Mechanical SPGs don't fail. No, they do fail. The ONLY pressure sensing devices I've had fail have been mechanical SPGs -- my AI computers have never FAILED (although the wrist mount does fail to synch some times -- especially after I've done a valve drill which is NOT something a single tank recreational diver will be doing!). My Cobra, attached AI computer, has NEVER failed.

c. Wrist mounted devices are hard to get on over dry gloves -- probably true IF you are not using a DSS boot or other bungeed system.

d. You need an AI computer to easily get your SAC rate -- false (although assuming it is calculated automatically, like my Suunto Dive Manager program does, it is easiest). AS LONG AS your computer or bottom timer will give you the "time weighted" average depth of your dive and AS LONG AS you record/remember your starting and ending tank pressures, determinging your overall SAC rate is easy -- convert avg depth into avg ATA, convert psi used into volume, divide volume by total minutes of dive and then the volume per minute by the avg ATA -- that is your avg SAC for the dive. (I have my OW students do this and it takes less than a minute to calculate.)

Me, I prefer wrist mounted for the reasons others have stated -- my hand is generally out in front of me so a quick glance and I have my time, depth and pressure. My Cobra, being a console, is my backup and really just stays clipped to my waist.

Oh, and by having a computer (bottom timer) on my wrist and a console clipped off to my harness, I have a backup in case something goes bad with one of them. IF I am on a dive vacation that has cost me several $1000 (and most will cost at least $1500), having a second device is very cheap insurance.

[Dusty2]

Some valid points Peter. I dive an AI as my main computer and love it however I have had 2 AI computers fail (replaced by MFG fortunatly) and not because of battery's I have never had an SPG fail so both points are valid depending on personal experience.

I whole hardily agree on redundancy. I dive the AI plus an SPG. If either fails I'm still good. Of course just about everything else on my setup has a backup also. As you say if it is mechanical or electronic it can fail regardless of who made it.

You don't need a computer at all but they do make life easier and I personally love them. Especially my AI. I love being able to glance at mine during a dive and see what my breathing rate is and how much time that equates to with remaining gas. I also love the download feature and the logbook software that came with it. But I wouldn't tell an inexperienced diver to rush out and plop down the big bucks for an AI computer until they have a few dozen dives and are sure they are going to stay with the sport and know what path they want to follow. They are just too damn expensive.

[Peter Guy]

Dusty -- absolutely correct that a new diver is probably much better off waiting for a while before buying gear -- especially a dive computer -- so that they have a much better idea of what works for the type of diving they are going to be doing.

Did I wait? Nope! Which is why I have three computers!!! (I actually have more than that but only use three at a time.)

It is funny that there is a fine line between waiting and buying and buying so you'll dive! Too many people don't dive locally because they need the gear to dive (and be comfortable) but they don't buy because they haven't dived enough. Some times you just have to jump in!

OP -- IF I had it to do over again, I would not be diving with three computers nor would I be diving with air integrated computers (which I REALLY like). Instead, I would just bite the bullet and get the least expensive wrist mount dive computer I could find and have an SPG to show me tank pressure. I would then use it for a while as I explored and learned how to dive. After 20 or so dives, that is, after I had become a little more comfortable and I had a better idea as to what type of diving I was doing (was I really just going to be a "vacation diver" or was I going to be a year-round local diver?), I would then put the dive computer into guage mode and/or go get the computer that really fit my style and use the simple (cheap) one as my backup.

[Dusty2]

Did I wait? Hell no but that doesn't mean I did the right thing.

I got fairly lucky though. I lucked into a really good deal on a new AI because of an accidental overstock at one of the larger shops in florida and being a technology junky I just couldn't resist! As it worked out it was the right computer for me. It lasted 300 or more dives before it blew out the the pressure sensor and since it was older tech by then I was able to replace it for $200 bucks for a brand new one which failed at about 11 months still under warranty. Here's the good part I sent it in for repair and since it was a discontinued model they sent me a brand new top of the line $800.00 AI to replace it!

That was a year and a half ago and I love it. BUT.... It was all luck and not smart thinking on my part.

Most of the name brand AI's out there are outstanding computers that will serve you well for years to come but what if you decide a few months down the road that you don't want to or can't continue to dive for some reason? Much better to have a $200 dollar computer that you no longer use than a $800 to $1200 top of the line paper weight!

Buy simple and inexpensive then if you get hooked like we all did upgrade to a really good one that will grow with you. As long as you buy a newer name brand entry level computer you won't lose much later on down the line.

[airsix]

Scuba Skaughtie,
If you're still shopping for a computer I'd seriously consider checking out this one being offered for sale by Mongo. It fits my description of a wrist mounted easy-to-read computer. The DSS bungee mount is a definite bonus. New it sells for $400. (I don't have any connection/affiliation)

[Joshua Smith]

Yep. That's a pretty sweet deal alright.

Scuba Skaughtie,
If you're still shopping for a computer I'd seriously consider checking out this one being offered for sale by Mongo. It fits my description of a wrist mounted easy-to-read computer. The DSS bungee mount is a definite bonus. New it sells for $400. (I don't have any connection/affiliation)