NWDC & Ads

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:25 am

In the coming weeks I may be experimenting with Google Ads on this site. Since our membership is free (basically, just show up and dive), and we want club swag (t-shirts and those long overdue stickers), there has to be some sort of funds making this club go.

The t-shirt experiment was a good one. Everyone who bought one was really happy but we only sold about half of them (in part, due to lack of large sizes). This was good because now we have some club gear to ID each other with at dive sites, but bad because I'm in the hole for the rest of the shirts. It isn't much, but it's enough to keep me from getting more stuff.

So, if we get ads up on the site it will be a little annoying, but at least they'll be scuba related and whatever earnings we get from them can be applied to t-shirts or beer or whatever for the club members. Goggle doesn't tell you ahead of time how much you'll make so I'll likely just give it a try for a month or so.

Any ideas or comments are welcome. I figure collecting donations or making club dues is not that cool of an idea, since one of the best parts about this club is that it's fun and it's free!

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:19 am

I Say, "Go for it!"

If it's going to keep our club free from dues, and will help in the stickers / T-shirt department, this should be a good thing huh?
Is there going to be a fund we can make donations to?
Is there a special price on the small T- shirts?

Keeping this club free is a good thing!

BASSMAN

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:27 am

I don't have any objection, as long as they're not too obnoxious. Most of the ads I see on sites like this don't bug me. Have you ever thought about a paypal link? I'd be happy to donate a few bucks here and there for server space and whatever miscellaneous junk came up. I don't know how painfull those are to set up and use, but some of the sites I "hang out" on have them, and they seem to work fine.

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:37 am

Hey Calvin - we'd have to see what we really turn from it, but it might be worth it!

There are some considerations that will need to be addressed. If NWDC starts collecting money, there needs to be some form of direction provided by members or directors. The other alternative is for NWDC to become a private entity (who gives free memberships) for profit. Then you have incorporation, taxes, blah blah blah. Bottom line - once there is money involved people get crazy and you end up with (warning: the following could be consider politically incorrect... but oh well!!!) "too many chiefs and not enough indians."

All that being said, I've done a little work in the world of internet marketing and I'm happy to help where I can.

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:48 am

Personally, I'd like this whole thing to stay as unstructured as possible- money does screw a lot of good things up, but obviously there are real costs involved, such as web space and T-shirts, but I don't think anyone wants to see laminated membership cards and formal meetings and crap- do they?

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:16 am

Keeping it unstructured is my preference. I think if we need money, donations are key... just to pay for things we want. For trips everyone should pay their own way (someone can get group rates etc, but everyone pays their own way). For the shirts, they were printed by Calvin et al, and were sold by them. Shirt cost was $13 priced at $15 which nets them $2 profit on each shirt they sold... I think that's fine and that they can sell whatever they like. $2/shirt profit is MORE than fair for all their time and trouble... I'm certain it wasn't a "profitable affair" if they included all their time and trouble.

Calvin, what kind of money do we need? What is the cost of this board each year to maintain? Are we talking tens, hundreds, or thousands? I'd be willing to help out with funding if it meant keeping the board unstructured. I'm sure there are others who would pitch in as well.

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:15 am

Well, I'm thinking that we keep things as simple as possible. The donations thing is a good idea but I hesitate to handle people's money more than necessary. The t-shirt thing is great because now we have a way to ID each other and a few new members have joined as a result. Same with the stickers.

I think it worked out rather well and if the Google Ads can subsidize some things like that and I can get better at choosing sizes for t-shirts, then maybe we can make batches of them for $10 each or something to that effect. I don't want to make this thing into a bigger deal than it is, the real fun is in diving together, not in 'management' (I get enough of that at work

)

If this thing grows to the size that it's necessary to organize a little better, then we'll probably know. For now, I'm happy with the rate that we're growing and I think it's important not to get too big too fast. We have to give members enough time to meet each other in person.

The funds from ads could also help to pay for BBQ events like the one w/ John Rawlings' presentation coming up. Of course, we can all just pitch in or have a potluck too, but it's always nice to have a little help.

Thoughts, criticisms?

Sergeant Pepper · Post by **Sergeant Pepper** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:45 am

One of the beauties of the club is that it is free. When you start collecting money it becomes more like a paid "membership" and less like an informal gathering of friendly divers.

1.) As far as the shirts go, how many do you have left? I would be willing to by one for my son and wife to help the cause if that is the main issue.

2.) If the issue is the cost of maintaining the board, then what's the cost? If we knew, maybe we would be inclined to send some money the way of whoever is footing the bill. The problem here is that there are many registered users on this site who never post, and probably just registered once so they could ask a question. I don't consider these people true "members" if they don't have an interest in it's success. How do you guage who pays and who doesn't ... who is a member and who isn't.

3.) I don't have a problem with the adds. I don't own this site. I'm just curious what the issue is. Is it money, administration, T-Shirts, a club fund, or all of the above.

Sounder · Post by **Sounder** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:47 am

I'm with you on the management - enough of that at work. On the shirt thing - let me know when you get some XL's and I'll take 2! I'll get a small for the lady too.

I like the idea of having money for stuff - but the key is management, and that comes with headaches, so I'm all for just casual no-rules hanging out. I'll be coming out to play a lot after next month and am really looking forward to being an active diver in addition to an active poster!!!

Pot-lucks are the best too - when everyone makes they're best dish, it can turn out mighty nice!

Semi-off subject: I'd be happy to host a pot-luck at my house and we could dive Pine Lake off my dock. I don't know what's down there, probably not much - but if we dove under the park (after fishing season) I bet there's a bunch of booty (watches, fishing gear, who knows?) to collect!!! I think Bob and I may check it out after the wedding. Anyway - it's an idea.

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:44 am

Please allow me to echo most of the comments here...
-Money REALLY complicates things, and one of the beauties of this club is that it is free!

-That being said, there is no such thing as a free lunch, and I'm sure the majority of folks on this board want to pay their own way.

-I know that I would be willing to pay for stickers and T-Shirts up front to help your cash flow... no one expects you to finance this whole thing. Ditto for any Club outings, etc. that would require advance payment.

-Also, don't hesitate to use board time to let folks know that you have shirts, etc. available. With all the new divers showing up on the board I know you will get responses.

-As far as other ads, as long as we're not fighting pop-ups all day or getting spammed it won't kill us to have some advertisements in the corners. I'm assuming we're not talking the "killer-take-over-your-computer" type adds?!?!?

OK, that's enough.... Let's go divin'!

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:07 pm

Tom!
Good use of the Emoticons!

:smt038

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:15 pm

I'm talking about standard google ads, probably 3 or 4 and they'd (theoretically) be scuba related since google scrapes the page and comes up with ads as a result of the content there.

I don't mind hosting the site, the real investment is the time that goes into it (gotta fix those darn quotes, btw), which I don't mind doing either. It's fun bringing folks together. I'm not looking to be reimbursed for site costs, I'm more thinking of getting folks some dive apparel and other cool stuff at a reasonable cost so that no one (or few) people have to foot the bill.

I have plenty of Large, Medium and Small dive club t-shirts left, for anyone who wants them. They're available at Bellevue Underwater Sports or you can just msg me and I'll bring you one next time we dive together. We were selling them for $15 bucks to cover costs but if you can't afford that then just whatever you can afford because I'm hoping that the google ads will eventually make up the difference.

I don't think that anyone should make money from the dive club but I'd like to see us get some cool stuff or be able to host a dive trip or BBQ once in a while at a reduced cost.

BASSMAN · Post by **BASSMAN** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:02 pm

Sounds Good to me!

Thank's Calvin!

You the Man!

:wav:

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:03 pm

I believe they run an analysis of CPM vs. CPC and then give you one or the other. Google is very mysterious about their ad share.

I don't want to get our hopes up too much, because it could amount to peanuts, but then again, maybe we could end up with a NWDC portable compressor $\:D/$

sparky · Post by **sparky** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:53 pm

Well as for my Two boubles worth

Calvin : you are doing a grate job hosting the club site and what ever you decide I will back you 100% brother

I find this site would be worth my $$ even if you found you needed to charge a fee I have had the pleasure of meeting some realy grate divers here and unlike a nother web site I would viset these guys actuly go out and dive not just talk about diving.

Rember

You the TANG FISH

!!! I got your back brother

lets try the adds and see what they are like if we are not hapy with them we can talk about other options then .

I am happy with the way things are now and I have seen in the short time I have been a member hudge improvements in the site

So like I said Im in for the long haul lets ROCK see you at the BBQ BRO

Sparky

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:56 pm

No club dues or fees, period.

sparky · Post by **sparky** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:01 pm

Calvin Tang wrote:No club dues or fees, period.

thats not what I was saying Calvin I was saying you decide what you think is best for the dive club web site and I am there 100%

I think we should try the adds besides I know I for one am always in the market for more gear and the adds may be a big help .

Sparky

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:03 pm

I know what you were trying to say Sparky, I was backing you up but also saying that we'd figure out a creative way to avoid club dues. Sorry, it's hard to catch meanings like that through messages sometimes.

Sparkinator!

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:15 pm

Mabey some of the active instructors or buisness owners that are on this site might want to advertise on this site.

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:18 pm

First let's see if the google ads work, since it's the lowest effort and doesn't involve me taking money from anybody.

BTW, you're about to break 300 diverdown!

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:31 pm

BTW, you're about to break 300 diverdown!

??

DiverDown · Post by **DiverDown** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:40 pm

I like the ads on the bottom better..

Tangfish · Post by **Tangfish** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 6:01 pm

Well, what do you guys think? Not that bad, eh? I'm not sure those ads will do any good down there (pretty innocuous), but it's a start. I might experiment with them on the top of the page and see if that's not too annoying.

Tom Nic · Post by **Tom Nic** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:17 pm

Unobstrusive to the point of being unnoticeable!

Put some on top!

I take it you have control of where they go on a page and how many there are??

Joshua Smith · Post by **Joshua Smith** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:28 pm

Man....I had to look around for them. This ain't so bad.