KISS GEM For Sale

[Jeff Pack]

Next to the deal that I got, this is the best deal I've seen on one.

http://www.rebreatherworld.com/rebreath ... -sale.html

I'm almost considering getting one just for spares.

[Joshua Smith]

I was a bit shocked to see you posting this thread, I must admit. I take it you're keeping yours?

[Jeff Pack]

oh yea, as a tweener rebreather, I really like it. Not a fan of front mounted counter lungs, but for the simplicity of the GEM, cost (what I paid anyways), etc, I'm very happy with it. Once the level 2 course is released, it'll be where I want it to be.

I'm on the waiting list for the 5.5lb scrubbers, so adios with the Extendaire cartridges,hello to packing my own scrubber.

I guess at some point I should probably write up a review of the GEM.

Next up is my Advanced Nitrox and Advanced trimix classes on it in a few weeks.

[CaptnJack]

Who's releasing a repackable scrubber for these? The rumor I heard was Jetsam was not interested in releasing a repackable for their "recreational" SCR.

edit: how does 5.5 lbs of scrubber duration wise compare to other CCR units people are using around here? Josh? John?

[camerone]

edit: how does 5.5 lbs of scrubber duration wise compare to other CCR units people are using around here? Josh? John?

The _general_ rule of thumb is 1 kg per hour of duration, although that's running pretty hard... at European nanny-state testing levels. However, that's what they're spec'd at. Design also matters a lot; for instance, the rectangular block of a Sport KISS wastes a lot of scrubber material because air flow in the scrubber is not very good into the corners.

Scrubbers are a classic example of what's called a "plug flow reactor" in chemical engineering terms, so it's pretty easy to work the math out for them; calculus class from high school and freshman level college chemistry are enough if you look up the equations...

With proper monitoring - of which only the new rMS based rEvo and the AP Diving Inspiration or Evolution have, you can usually extend that somewhat. There are a couple of other CO2 systems out there for other units - like the Sentinel, but they're not really useful for gauging remaining life...

Actual duration varies with temperature (cold scrubbers are less efficient), physiology (tidal volume), aerobic effort expended, etc.

I am no fan of cartridges, having seen them in use first hand, so this will be a welcome change for this unit.

[CaptnJack]

Well how much sorb is in the speced Micropore cartridges then? Looks like 2.5 kgs is not a whole lot more than might be provided by the current cartridges.

[Jeff Pack]

Who's releasing a repackable scrubber for these? The rumor I heard was Jetsam was not interested in releasing a repackable for their "recreational" SCR.

edit: how does 5.5 lbs of scrubber duration wise compare to other CCR units people are using around here? Josh? John?

Jetsam, Kim has me on the waiting list for one when they come out. The prototypes have been out there since mid year I think. I suppose I could probably machine my own scrubber can if I had specs, I dont know enought to try and design my own.

The current Extendaire is rated to scrub I think 240cf I think, and in our cold water is around 2 hours (I usually push to near 3).

I think the big deal is the cost, as the extendairs retail 35$ each, 30$ if I get 2 cases.

[Joshua Smith]

Who's releasing a repackable scrubber for these? The rumor I heard was Jetsam was not interested in releasing a repackable for their "recreational" SCR.

edit: how does 5.5 lbs of scrubber duration wise compare to other CCR units people are using around here? Josh? John?

Standard Meg axial scrubber is 5.5 pounds, rated 4 hours in cold water.

[CaptnJack]

Who's releasing a repackable scrubber for these? The rumor I heard was Jetsam was not interested in releasing a repackable for their "recreational" SCR.

edit: how does 5.5 lbs of scrubber duration wise compare to other CCR units people are using around here? Josh? John?

Standard Meg axial scrubber is 5.5 pounds, rated 4 hours in cold water.

Thanks sounds like about ~40% more time give or take.

[John Rawlings]

Don't have the stats in front of me, but the KISS Classic has a similar time to the Meg in cold water.

[camerone]

Don't have the stats in front of me, but the KISS Classic has a similar time to the Meg in cold water.

And that jives with the Inspiration / Evolution+ which is 2.5kg (4 hours), and the Evolution (2.1kg / 3 hrs), although in practice -- and I don't recommend it -- I usually get 33-50% more out of it before the scrubber temp stick tells me I'm done.

Nobody could physically sustain the rate that they test these things to in Europe for the duration of time. Even if you did, it would be very unpleasant. The first time I went through the lips at Ginnie, by the time I got through, it was like sucking air from the hot end of a hair dryer to breathe off the loop.

ExtendAir puts a lot of FUD up on their web site about channeling, packing difficulties, etc to sell some very overpriced cartridges that solve a non-existent problem. The only way that their product could be more efficient than granular, given that they waste space with the batting/structural materials, would be if they use a different process for producing the granules that increases the surface area of the 'sorb itself. Otherwise, the physics of it are impossible.

Some people apparently like paying $35 for $15 worth of sofnolime. For them, the cartridges are a good thing.

[Jeff Pack]

If I was traveling, perhaps the cartridges are a good thing, but they add up when diving locally when I could be packing my own.

But yea, I've seen CE tests on scrubbers, its insane the load they put on them.

[Joshua Smith]

It's widely understood that scrubber ratings are *very* conservative, generally speaking. I've never run mine over 4 hours, though. And I've wasted a lot of scrubbers that still had an hour or so on them. Sofno isn't wildly expensive, and I just feel a lot better with a fresh scrubber. I don't worry very much about 02 levels any more. I replace my cells regularly, and I test and calibrate as needed. But C02 is something to be respected and feared. When I can stack the deck in my favor, I do it. And when I hear about people pushing their scrubbers, I just decide that they're fools, and choose not to dive with them.

[Jeff Pack]

+whatever

Yea, scrimping on yer scrubber just isnt very smart... 3hrs is my max with the extendaire. I know people in cold water that push them more, but it isnt worth it over 35$ to me.

[loanwolf]

Who's releasing a repackable scrubber for these? The rumor I heard was Jetsam was not interested in releasing a repackable for their "recreational" SCR.

Several different people make a packable cartridge that will replace Extend Air Cartridges. It is a disadvantage of the cartridge type for the manufactures that do not what a packable in their units. once one has a packable replacement they all do. Mel had one of the first 3 yrs ago for her Optima. Now Titan and Meg offer both as a option for their Cartridge type rebreathers.