![d'oh! #-o](./images/smilies/eusa_doh.gif)
I knew that.. I was just uh testing everybuddy! Yeah that's the ticket!
Well, I thought I was going to have to kick D's shins under the table when you were telling the story about being stuck in the kelp, and she asked if you'd considered a necklaced backup. My personal rule is "don't offer DIR advice unless directly asked about it" -- maybe I'm too "internet sensitive" from reading SB threads. I figure the last thing I need is to make people I'll be in the water with uncomfortable just before a dive...GillyWeed wrote: The only experiance that I have had with any DIR divers is with Ryan (rsdancy), Delaina (bubblemkr)
...
Did they try to convert me to the 'dark side'? No, they are all three really nice people. Like most divers out there.
I guess my overall point is that there are a lot of divers in the PNW going DIR who aren't going tech. I think the absolute link between DIR and tech is broken here, because "recreational dives" in 50 degree low vis soup has so smeared the difference between rec O/W diving and Tech diving. I think a lot of people are going DIR for rec diving simply because it's a better fit for our local conditions than PADI-standard O/W skills (which is no slam on PADI; I'm a card carrying PADI Rescue Diver, and their system got me off the couch and into the water, and for that I am both grateful and aware of the effectiveness of the marketing & the approach to training that worked so well for me and my family.)Dmitchell wrote: I'm fortunate enough to own my shop, but for the average diver and dive shop it's much more lucrative to have a diver move on to tech than not.
I'll bet it hasn't really.I once had a manufactures rep tell me that shops the went "Tech" were shooting themselves in the foot and the average OW Student didn't need to see all that confusing stuff. SCUBA was foreign enough and tech just freaked them out. My reply was how can you take that stance when I have 5 regs on a tech dive. His response was it's 2% of the market.
That's all changed now and I'm sure his attitude has changed as well.
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Right now, DIR divers are haunting eBay, buying jet fins. My local shops sell these fins for well over $100. After buying these fins, the people who get them then spend even more money adding spring straps to them. These fins remain essentially unchanged from their debut, several decades ago. Surely, in that time, there have been improvements that would make it possible to create a new fin that do what Jetfins do, but better.
There is massive competition for people who want neon-colored flippy fins for tropical diving. Companies that make fins for that market are just subdividing an existing group of customers into smaller and smaller slices of marketshare. Doesn't it make more sense to try and go after a business where you have really high brand equity, and a proven product people like, and make something that those people might consider buying?
You mean like these ... http://www.omsdive.com/fin.html ???RSdancey wrote:If ScubaPro made JetFin II, out of lighter weight materials, with modern design to improve all the things we like about them (ability to do back kicks & helicopter turns), with a better designed foot pocket, off the shelf spring straps, and who knows what other improvements they could engineer, they wouldn't be selling to the handful of people who buy new JetFins every year -- they'd be selling to all the people who have been using them (and re-using them) for decades!
Those are intriguing! Where can I buy a pair? Doesn't look like they sell direct, from the looks of the site.Grateful Diver wrote:You mean like these ... http://www.omsdive.com/fin.html ???RSdancey wrote:If ScubaPro made JetFin II, out of lighter weight materials, with modern design to improve all the things we like about them (ability to do back kicks & helicopter turns), with a better designed foot pocket, off the shelf spring straps, and who knows what other improvements they could engineer, they wouldn't be selling to the handful of people who buy new JetFins every year -- they'd be selling to all the people who have been using them (and re-using them) for decades!
Dunno about anyone else, but I'm planning to try a pair ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Well, at 7 lbs, Jet fins put a serious dent in the 35 lb. luggage limit I'm gonna have to deal with on my Indonesia trip next March. I've been very happy with my Jets ... but they're definitely NOT the best travel fins ever invented. And, in fact, they make you fairly foot-heavy in a 3 mil wetsuit and AL plate ...CaptnJack wrote:The fact the jets are negative is nice for me. I don't want them lighter, if they were I'd need a AL plate around here instead of my SS one. Why they don't just make them with spring staps and in common sense sizes I'll never understand.
I guess ignorance is bliss, because I would have actually had to know what she was talking about and I really didn't. Like I said I hadn't heard of DIR before that dive.. So no way to get ruffled.. I don't really remember her saying that.. Which isn't saying much as I am getting older I find I remember less.. hee hee.. But I do remember the dive with the kelp attacking me and the only reason that it was a problem was because I was diving with someone that I wont dive with again. And by trying to keep up with him, I couldn't pay attention to what I needed to.. Anyway it's a long story.. But it is really hard to ruffle my feathers and even harder to ruffle them when I am oblivious.. =) so no worries.. You can offer what ever advice you like..Well, I thought I was going to have to kick D's shins under the table when you were telling the story about being stuck in the kelp, and she asked if you'd considered a necklaced backup. My personal rule is "don't offer DIR advice unless directly asked about it" -- maybe I'm too "internet sensitive" from reading SB threads. I figure the last thing I need is to make people I'll be in the water with uncomfortable just before a dive...glad no feathers were ruffled!
I don't think GUE/DIR has the market on diving as a team. I dive with 2 guys pretty regularly and we are a great team. We have some of our own ways of communicating with each other that maybe others wouldn't know. We made some things up as we found the need and didn't have a reference.. But we don't even need to signal most of the time because we just know...spooky... And it is just a lot of fun. However, being a team with someone is no substitute for going over the dive plan and communication before the dive. We always try to review our signals and game plan before every dive. And when we dive with other people, we are then in the habit of reviewing their system of communication so that everyone gets on the same page.Being able to function as a team makes diving unbelievably easier. I cant stress this enough. Rob's example of cave diving (with failures thrown at us) with someone we never met before basically sums up why we like GUE so much.
Try Matt at NWSD, he's ordering a pair for Bob and I to use as "travel" fins. I'll let you know what I think after Maui . . .Nailer99 wrote:
Those are intriguing! Where can I buy a pair? Doesn't look like they sell direct, from the looks of the site.
GUE and the DIR approach certainly don't have a monopoly on team diving, but I think the unique thing about this style of diving is the standardization. I've been on dives with DIR trained divers where we were instantly on the same page. I've only made one dive with BDub, for instance (by his own admission not DIR, but he has gone through Joe Talavera's essentials class, iirc), and we clicked pretty good for having never dived together before.GillyWeed wrote:
I don't think GUE/DIR has the market on diving as a team. I dive with 2 guys pretty regularly and we are a great team. We have some of our own ways of communicating with each other that maybe others wouldn't know. We made some things up as we found the need and didn't have a reference.. But we don't even need to signal most of the time because we just know...spooky... And it is just a lot of fun. However, being a team with someone is no substitute for going over the dive plan and communication before the dive. We always try to review our signals and game plan before every dive. And when we dive with other people, we are then in the habit of reviewing their system of communication so that everyone gets on the same page.
Again, I am just trying to understand and I don't know enough about it..