Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

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airsix
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Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by airsix »

I have doffed my ego and left it outside of this thread. #-o Please do the same, and ask those questions you've always wanted to know the answer to, but didn't ask for whatever reason. I though about dumping them all at once, but on second though I'll trickle them in one at a time. Please feel free to add your own! :occasion5:

Question #1: What is the appropriate light signal to use when you want to get your team's/buddy's attention (so you can communicate a hand signal, etc.). Note this is not the time for a 'cross' (pointing out an object), nor is it 'trouble'. You just want someone to look in your direction for 3 seconds.

Fire away. I've got dozens more queued up. :smt024 All responses appreciated.

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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Nwbrewer »

I have no idea what the "correct" way is, but I give a slow wave of the light across thier line of vision. Similar to the HOLY CRAP LOOK AT ME RIGHT NOW I'M OUT OF AIR signal, but without the urgency. Interested to hear what other do.
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Pez7378 »

It depends on who I'm diving with. If it's Joe, and he's not paying attention, I shine the light right at his mask until he looks at me, then I make sure to shine it in his eyes to let him know he's not paying attention. The problem with this technique I've discovered is that after I shine my light in his eyes, he usually doesn't get the message anyway. And it usually ends with him giving me the finger which I know I deserve. I hope I can learn a more effective technique, good idea for a thread Ben!
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Tom Nic »

Hmmm.... there probably is a "correct" way.

I just do a single flash of light at my buddy's face (not a steady shine) until he looks my way. The "slow wave across the line of vision" doesn't seem to work well for me (or the folks I'm diving with). Again, just a single flash usually does the trick. It's not the frantic, "flashing-all-over-the-place-I'm-about-to-die" kind of signal, and then as soon as they look I'm pointing or signaling, or whatever the reason I wanted them to look at me in the first place. If I was in trouble I'd be swimming towards them, slashing, or ripping their reg out of their mouth, or whatever the appropriate action was.

Seems to work, and nobody has thought I'm dieing yet, but then I can think of worse things than being offered a reg because my buddy finally looked over at me. :axe: :rr:
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Sounder »

Nwbrewer wrote:I have no idea what the "correct" way is, but I give a slow wave of the light across thier line of vision. Similar to the HOLY CRAP LOOK AT ME RIGHT NOW I'M OUT OF AIR signal, but without the urgency. Interested to hear what other do.
What I do: Move the beam slowly back and forth in front of them... as a friend calls it, the "yo... 'sup" signal. They'll look up at me at which point hand signals can begin.

I have had wild back-and-forth waves at me for things like "shark" or "octopus" etc - those can be mistaken for an emergency signal which can be annoying, but generally they're just excited signals. Additionally, when diving with someone who allows their light to hang under them (common with a pistol-grip light on a lanyard or retractor), the light will tend to hit me in the face with wild signals... again, annoying because my reaction is "emergency (jerk head up immediately and look for the problem)" but once I look up and see they're fine, I'm over it... I still never get used to the light in the face or wild waving though - always gives me a "jolt" which is annoying time after time on a dive.

One note on hand signals - remember that doing them infront of your body in our dark water can make them difficult to see. Moreover, doing them with your light pointed in your buddy's direction (even if not in their eyes), can make them difficult to see.

Good thread Ben!!
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Sounder »

Yeah, I don't like the light in the face due to the temporary decrease in my vision. #-o
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Tom Nic »

Sounder wrote:One note on hand signals - remember that doing them infront of your body in our dark water can make them difficult to see. Moreover, doing them with your light pointed in your buddy's direction (even if not in their eyes), can make them difficult to see.
This is a great reminder, and one that I've been guilty of. Which bring to mind another point, when your buddy does or doesn't do something in the course of a dive, TALK about it afterwards. That's how we learn. Discuss. Ask. Remind. That's a huge part of the way we become better divers.
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Joshua Smith »

I've been told that VERTICAL waving of the light beam means "attention" and that HORIZONTAL means "emergency." But I don't like that system- ANY rapid light movement means "emergency" to me, so I do what Jake said: Wave the light beam slowly back and forth where my buddy can see it.
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Sounder »

Nailer99 wrote:I've been told that VERTICAL waving of the light beam means "attention" and that HORIZONTAL means "emergency." But I don't like that system- ANY rapid light movement means "emergency" to me, so I do what Jake said: Wave the light beam slowly back and forth where my buddy can see it.
I agree with this too. Besides, is it horizontal to the message sender or horizontal to the message reveiver? They may be very different, especially in an emergency. Slow controlled waving is communication, rapid waving is "save my ass."
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Nwbrewer »

I must confess I've been know to use Pez's method as well, especially if my buddy is particularily focused on something else and I need his/her attention for something. Usually I try to avoid the blinding and resulting finger response though... :boxing:
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by CaptnJack »

Slow wave here = attention. Horizontal is typical, vertical is very rare but happens. Rapid wrist movement = save my butt, often confused with Steding adjusting his bouyancy on a scooter :la:
airsix wrote:Note this is not the time for a 'cross' (pointing out an object)
In cave diving we use small rapid circles to point something out (generally a tieoff). Only works if you are all going the same direction, looking roughly the same way, which plus or minus 20secs for looking around is generally the case. Otherwise needs to be preceeded by an attention signal.

I rarely point stuff out in OW. Its got to be a 1 in 100 dive event or rarer. Pointing lingcod out to me at Edmonds is rather... pointless #-o
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by dwashbur »

In our AOW we were told that waving back and forth means "I want your attention" and waving in an arc means "trouble." In our experience it's hard to distinguish the two, so we just use the back-and-forth wave to mean "I want your attention for whatever reason" and sort out the reasons later.

I really don't think there is a "right" way. As long as all participants in the dive agree on which motion means what, it really doesn't matter if you use fast wave, slow wave, figure eight, or a bop on the head. That's my two pistoozas' worth.
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by LCF »

When I did my cave class, we were very strictly schooled in the difference between an "attention" signal and an "emergency" signal. The former is very deliberate, a slow oscillating motion, whether horizontal or vertical. The latter is an extremely rapid "shaking" of the light, done with the wrist. It's unmistakable. When you see it, you prepare to stuff a regulator in somebody's mouth, although that may not be the emergency in question. But there are very few true emergencies underwater; if it's not OOA, it had better be a shark working on your left fin.

What I want to know but have been afraid to ask is, "Would you dive again with somebody who had to hang onto the anchor line from time to time on ascent?"
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by airsix »

LCF wrote:What I want to know but have been afraid to ask is, "Would you dive again with somebody who had to hang onto the anchor line from time to time on ascent?"
I typed a lengthy response but decided not to post it. I'm just going to step back and see where this goes.

I will say two things.
1. At some point in our diving we've all been there.
2. There are a lot of people who are perverting the intent of rule #1. (Lynne, you are NOT one of them, by the way).

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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Nwbrewer »

airsix wrote:
LCF wrote:What I want to know but have been afraid to ask is, "Would you dive again with somebody who had to hang onto the anchor line from time to time on ascent?"
I typed a lengthy response but decided not to post it. I'm just going to step back and see where this goes.

I will say two things.
1. At some point in our diving we've all been there.
2. There are a lot of people who are perverting the intent of rule #1. (Lynne, you are NOT one of them, by the way).

-Ben
Lynne,

Maybe I don't understand your question, but for me, I don't think someone needing some bouyancy "leveling" on an ascent is reason not to dive with someone. There are plenty opf newer divers who just don't have the skills yet to hold a midwater stop perfectly, does that make them unsafe to dive with? There are degrees too, between reaching out to the ascent line to steady yourself, and climbing the anchor line hand over hand.

I may not go out and do a deep boat dive with that person, but I see no reason to ban someone from my buddy list because they need to continue to work on thier bouyancy skills. I would however plan dives that were easier with that person until they had thier bouyancy better under control.

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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by spatman »

LCF wrote:What I want to know but have been afraid to ask is, "Would you dive again with somebody who had to hang onto the anchor line from time to time on ascent?"
"from time to time" means what? that during the first 100 dives or so of their career they occasionally need some assistance? or do you mean during their entire diving career they never learned how to ascend w/o a guide line? do you feel that divers who do this shouldn't get the benefit of learning from more experienced divers, and possibly breaking this habit? that they are inherently dangerous and no one should dive with them at all?

i had to hang on to the anchor line on one of my ascents a couple of weeks ago. mostly due to improper weighting while diving with tanks that were unfamiliar to me. i certainly don't plan to make this a habit, yet i hope that the folks i was diving with will continue to dive with me and mentor me, even if i'm not 100% in every thing i do (though i'm pretty sure they will continue to do so).
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Joshua Smith »

LCF wrote:What I want to know but have been afraid to ask is, "Would you dive again with somebody who had to hang onto the anchor line from time to time on ascent?"
I hang on to the downline whenever I feel like it, and don't even give it a second thought- is there some reason I'm not aware of that I shouldn't be doing this? What if you're in a current?
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by John Rawlings »

Hmmmm. I hang on down lines a lot.....usually relaxing with my eyes shut and day-dreaming my way through my stop. If that causes someone to not want to dive with me, so be it.

Something tells me that I won't lose any sleep over it....
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by rjw »

John Rawlings wrote:Hmmmm. I hang on down lines a lot.....usually relaxing with my eyes shut and day-dreaming my way through my stop. If that causes someone to not want to dive with me, so be it.

Something tells me that I won't lose any sleep over it....
Same deal with me.
I like to use the line or deco station to just zone out on the longer hangs. Its not that I have to just LAZY. \:D/
So if thats a deal breaker so be it.
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

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LCF wrote:What I want to know but have been afraid to ask is, "Would you dive again with somebody who had to hang onto the anchor line from time to time on ascent?"
What's "from time to time"??

If you are hanging onto the anchor line on a small boat like yours or mine for either current or bouyancy issues it creates as many or more yo-yos than it solves.
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Sounder »

I'm not clear on the question either. Is this someone who cannot manage an ascent whatsoever and who requires the anchor line to hold a stop, or is this someone who can hang free at their stop but chooses to hold the line?

In the case of someone who cannot manage an ascent whatsoever, whether I'll dive with them really depends on their attitude. Are they actively working and practicing to get better at their ascents or are they satisfied to depend on the line for all their mid-water ascents?
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by LCF »

Sorry; I really posted that in a wine-influenced fit of self-loathing. I have midwater issues, and am currently at a nadir in confidence, and need practice, and got really mad at myself for using the upline for the ascents we did on July 4th. That's all.
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

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Sounder wrote: In the case of someone who cannot manage an ascent whatsoever, whether I'll dive with them really depends on their attitude. Are they actively working and practicing to get better at their ascents or are they satisfied to depend on the line for all their mid-water ascents?
This is really the key. Attitude, and comitment, is everything in chosing whether or not to continue diving with someone.
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by Joshua Smith »

LCF wrote:Sorry; I really posted that in a wine-influenced fit of self-loathing. I have midwater issues, and am currently at a nadir in confidence, and need practice, and got really mad at myself for using the upline for the ascents we did on July 4th. That's all.
I really am clueless, I guess- what's wrong with using the upline? I don't get it- I've never heard anything about this before. I don't mean the guy who yanks on it hard enough to rock the boat, or anything like that. How are you supposed to hold your deco stops in a current without using the upline? I'm doing dives with 40- 60 minutes of deco these days- they've mostly been in the lake, so far, but out in the Sound, I'm expecting to be hanging off the upline like a flag flapping in a stiff wind....
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Re: Everything you ever wanted to know but were afraid to ask

Post by CaptnJack »

Nailer99 wrote: I really am clueless, I guess- what's wrong with using the upline? I don't get it- I've never heard anything about this before. I don't mean the guy who yanks on it hard enough to rock the boat, or anything like that. How are you supposed to hold your deco stops in a current without using the upline? I'm doing dives with 40- 60 minutes of deco these days- they've mostly been in the lake, so far, but out in the Sound, I'm expecting to be hanging off the upline like a flag flapping in a stiff wind....
You need to hold onto the upline in the lake??

I either drift the deco or scooter up drift back, scooter up drift back, repeat. Last time I hung on an anchor line we had the scooters but the current didn't pick up until the 20ft stop so we just stayed with the line rather than let go, drift, and shoot a bag. That was probably a yr ago.
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